EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[Eric Arthur 10]

Sorry if youve been busted but no need to become abusive.

 

Not random countries. The link explains the methodology as using countries which are similarly prosperous. Within those are pockets of severe deprivation. South Yorkshire is one of those.

 

If you want to make our benchmark poor communities in newer EU countries in the East then what exactly is that going to achieve? What exactly are you going to be arguing with that? That everything is fine in South Yorkshire because we're not as poor as Roma villages in Slovakia? Or something like that?

 

You did choose to compare South Yorkshire with the other regions in the richest and most economically, culturally and politically developed corner of the entire planet though. It's a bit like saying that Prince Harry is a deprived member of the Royal Family.

 

South Yorkshire does have pockets of real problems but relative to everywhere else, even Wath is in the world's top 1% richlist.

[sutty27 10]

Quite simply not true.

 

http://inequalitybriefing.org/brief/briefing-43-the-poorest-regions-of-the-uk-are-the-poorest-in-northern-

 

Massively rich?

 

This (France, Germany, Belgium, Holland, Luxembourg, Austria, Ireland, Sweden, Finland or Denmark) isn't a list of EU countries,

 

This (Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and the UK.) is the list of EU countries.

 

 

So your link isn't evidence that Quik posted an untruth. Try harder next time.

[L00b 441]

Actually the Belgian police are checking 3 border crossings close to Calais because of part of the 'jungle' being closed. All the migrants crossing into Belgium are asked if they want to apply for asylum, if they don't want to they are refused entry, if they do they are allowed in. Today 80 odd migrants were turned back because they refused asylum and wanted to go to Zeebrugge to attempt to reach the UK. So the Belgian police are policing the UK border.

I'm well aware of this, Kdv1. I was just pointing out that claiming that Belgium has "exited Schengen" is a significant exaggeration: until the agreement itself is repealed, or a country unilaterally and effectively withdraws from the agreement with a relevant legislative instrument (decree, act, <etc.>), no country can be said to have "exited" it.

 

Even if, to all intents and purposes, they effectively have

 

Might be semantics, but it's important semantics.

 

FYI, customs in Zeebrugge have been x-raying trucks and containers (for illegals) before loading onto UK-bound ferries -just like customs do in Coquelles before boarding UK-bound Chunnel trains- for many years. Been through both (Zeebrugge, Coquelles) myself often enough in past 23-odd years.

 

So these ex-Jungle migrants were onto a loser before they even set off

I wonder what will happen if the UK comes out of the EU - will they just put them on the ferry instead and let the UK police deal with them when they arrive in the UK.

Jury's still out on this. Fearmongers (on both sides of the argument) argue that the above will happen. Practicals argue that it will not. I'm with the practicals

[Eric Arthur 10]

So these ex-Jungle migrants were onto a loser before they even set off

Jury's still out on this. Fearmongers (on both sides of the argument) argue that the above will happen. Practicals argue that it will not. I'm with the practicals

 

The Belgian's have come up with an interesting solution to dampen the enthusiasm for heading north to find a way to the UK.

 

Apparently the Belgian police are asking migrants if they want to claim asylum in Belgium. If they say "yes, I want asylum in Belgium" they get it, and the Belgian's tick off one of their allowance. If they say "No I don't want asylum in Belgium" they are transported back to Calais.

 

A very practical solution to keeping migrants out of Belgium and the UK. The French need to sort themselves out.

[Zamo 10]

Trade-wise, and irrespective of any tariffs (if there were to be any, they wouldn't come about immediately at all, probably a matter of years), my own tea leaves say a hard slap short-term, hard enough to cause a brief recession (the yo-yo'ing £ and overnight exodus of City money/mover-shakers to Germany and Dublin alone will do that), then gradual return to pre-Brexit trading levels over 5 to 7 years.

 

Your assessment is however based on an 'as is' EU situation, which I cannot see lasting.

 

It isn't just people in the UK that are fed up with EU diktats on non-trade related matters. Across Europe far-right and nationalist parties are surging because people are fed up of the diktats from the EU and the capitulation of their governments because the EU dangles the economic Sword of Damocles over their heads. We are getting ever closer to several countries voting an anti-immigration/EU party into government and a million more migrants this year should see the tipping point reached. The UK may currently be standing alone in showing defiance to the EU but I honestly believe it is only a matter of time before others stand alongside and that will change everything.

 

I beg people, please don't listen to those who advocate capitulation to the EU because of it's thinly veiled 'silver or lead' threat. It is simply wrong, dangerous and unnecessary for the EU to hold non-trade related powers over sovereign states. The EU needs to radical reform and the only way to force that is for us to vote to leave. Don't listen to the Stay campaigners advocating the surrender of sovereignty because silver is better than lead... we are better than that.

[sgtkate 10]

Ah, that's what I meant.

 

So in effect we are subsidising the EU countries and also the running of the EU to the tune of >5,445,700,046 Euro.

 

It also seems that the EU spends over 6.5% of the total EU budget just on administration which seems wasteful.

 

Your last line is absolutely right. Did you know that the headquarters of the EU moves every few weekss between Brussels and Strasbourg so as not to cause a political argument between Belgium and France?

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/10565686/The-farce-of-the-EU-travelling-circus.html

 

So that's a significant saving right there. I'm leaning towards staying in the EU if I'm honest, but stuff like this just makes me want to cry...I want us to stay as I think the EU does a lot of good and with us there I'm hopeful we can push through real reform now that the EU has had to show its hand on how valuable we are to them, that gives us more power than we had to shape the EU for the future. But this is a one time only offer from me, if we do vote to stay in and nothing seemingly changes for the better, more accountability, more transparency, less waste etc, then if we have another referendum I'm voting out. So Britain, please take this one chance because the majority of people I know feel similarly that they will give the EU one last chance to be less **** before we all completely lose faith.

[L00b 441]

The French need to sort themselves out.

They obviously are (finally), else the Belgians wouldn't need to man the barricades, would they?

Your assessment is however based on an 'as is' EU situation, which I cannot see lasting.

It isn't, it does factor changes brought about either by the EU itself (veering sharply to the right short-term, and many signs show that this is now starting to happen) or by its member states individually (effectively bringing about/retrograding the EU to a trading club).

 

We'll still not be in that club after a Brexit, however, and that will have economic consequences (those I mentioned).

 

No fearmongering in the above, it's basic economics and common sense: many respected proponents of the out campaign fully accept that the UK will take at least a short-term hit, so I'm hardly paddling against the current here.

 

It's the scale of those consequences that's difficult to estimate with precision (because it will be down to what is negotiated between GB and the EU post-Brexit...and we haven't heard squat from the out camp about that yet).

Edited February 25, 2016 by L00b

[Brian Equato 10]

Your last line is absolutely right. Did you know that the headquarters of the EU moves every few weekss between Brussels and Strasbourg so as not to cause a political argument between Belgium and France?

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/10565686/The-farce-of-the-EU-travelling-circus.html

 

So that's a significant saving right there. I'm leaning towards staying in the EU if I'm honest, but stuff like this just makes me want to cry...I want us to stay as I think the EU does a lot of good and with us there I'm hopeful we can push through real reform now that the EU has had to show its hand on how valuable we are to them, that gives us more power than we had to shape the EU for the future. But this is a one time only offer from me, if we do vote to stay in and nothing seemingly changes for the better, more accountability, more transparency, less waste etc, then if we have another referendum I'm voting out. So Britain, please take this one chance because the majority of people I know feel similarly that they will give the EU one last chance to be less **** before we all completely lose faith.

 

If I was putting a bet on it, I'd be putting my money on us staying in and once the vote is safely out of the way, absolutely nothing changing (Towards more accountability, less waste, stronger borders, etc, etc), no doubt complex legal excuses will be found to not carry out the miniscule changes Cameroon claims to have negotiated and everything will carry on as before.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Brian Equato

[sgtkate 10]

If I was putting a bet on it, I'd be putting my money on us staying in and once the vote is safely out of the way, absolutely nothing changing (Towards more accountability, less waste, stronger borders, etc, etc), no doubt comples legal excuses will be found to not carry out the miniscule changes Cameroon claims to have negotiated and everything will carry on as before.

 

Sadly, so do I but I really want to see the EU succeed so I'm prepared to give one final chance...

[Zamo 10]

So Britain, please take this one chance because the majority of people I know feel similarly that they will give the EU one last chance to be less **** before we all completely lose faith.

 

Your faith is misplaced. Politicians do not give up power unless they have no choice. The EU is not going to hand back the non-trade related powers it has snatched from member states unless there is lethal threat i.e. members willing to break up the union unless the terms of membership are radically changed.

 

The EU currently believe they can stare us down and we will capitulate as did Greece. I hope this country show we have more backbone than that. If we make a stand then others will follow and we'll get real change. Capitulate and nothing changes... at least until the far-right take over.

 

---------- Post added 25-02-2016 at 10:23 ----------

 

Sadly, so do I but I really want to see the EU succeed so I'm prepared to give one final chance...

 

Einstein said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Don't do it.

[srt2016 10]

Plenty more changes to come and once this vote is out of the way they will come thick and fast.

 

Eg

 

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-2747749/Accidental-landlords-set-banned-EU-2016.html

 

From 2016 accidental landlords could be blocked

[Eric Arthur 10]

They obviously are (finally), else the Belgians wouldn't need to man the barricades, would they?

They are definitely tinkering around the edges with the Calais Jungle clearing but the Dunkirk Jungle is sizing upwards nicely. I'm not sure what they are doing on the borders at the other side to stop migrants entering, do you know?

 

If I was putting a bet on it, I'd be putting my money on us staying in and once the vote is safely out of the way, absolutely nothing changing (Towards more accountability, less waste, stronger borders, etc, etc), no doubt complex legal excuses will be found to not carry out the miniscule changes Cameroon claims to have negotiated and everything will carry on as before.

 

Unless something changes quickly I'd be very surprised if there was an IN vote.