Wales bans E-ciggies from indoor venues.

[Tim1 10]

What age do you have to be to "vape" I was on the supertram from halfway and some kids in school uniform got on near a school and they were "vaping" it did not smell though

[Timeh 10]

Wouldnt surprise me if all these bans have the fag industry behind them in some way.

[Bigthumb 10]

Yep, if you want to follow the supply chain, you can see the GC/MS reports from the testing labs, you can call the labs yourself. Without actually doing the analysis yourself, at some level you need to take someone's word for it. It's the same with every kind of product: pork pies, vodka, anal lubricant, etc. as you're no doubt aware.

 

 

Verbatim from the article you have cited:

 

 

 

You can do what you want - but I'm interested to hear your reasoning on why other people should be forced to.

 

The British Medical Association, incidentally, says "The BMA recognises their potential for supporting tobacco harm reduction. There is, however, a lack of robust research and evidence in this area, and any benefits or disadvantages to public health are not yet well established. "

 

Of course, it then goes on to say how they will be regulated etc.

 

Which, surprisingly enough turns out to be 'very badly'.

 

There may well be health benefits for someone smoking an E-cigs rather than ordinary ones. That's not the same as saying there are health benefits for non smokers sitting in a pub forced tp breathe the fumes.

 

I was unaware that such a thing as anal lubricant existed. Clearly you are for your own reasons aquainted with such substances. I suppose it is to be expected as you talk through that particular orifice much of the time.

 

---------- Post added 11-06-2015 at 17:49 ----------

 

What age do you have to be to "vape" I was on the supertram from halfway and some kids in school uniform got on near a school and they were "vaping" it did not smell though

 

That wouldn't surprise me as the trams smell anyhow. As the things are banned on Supertram I don't think the legal age has much to do with it.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Bigthumb

[Speckled Hen 10]

Yep, if you want to follow the supply chain, you can see the GC/MS reports from the testing labs, you can call the labs yourself. Without actually doing the analysis yourself, at some level you need to take someone's word for it. It's the same with every kind of product: pork pies, vodka, anal lubricant, etc. as you're no doubt aware.

 

 

Verbatim from the article you have cited:

 

A Public Heath England report concluded that electronic cigarettes offer ‘vast potential health benefits’ by providing a ‘safer source of nicotine’ for smokers.

 

It added: ‘But maximising those benefits while minimising harms and risks to society requires appropriate regulation, careful monitoring, and risk management.

 

‘However the opportunity to harness this potential into public health policy, complementing existing comprehensive tobacco control policies, should not be missed.’

 

 

You can do what you want - but I'm interested to hear your reasoning on why other people should be forced to.

 

The British Medical Association, incidentally, says "The BMA recognises their potential for supporting tobacco harm reduction. There is, however, a lack of robust research and evidence in this area, and any benefits or disadvantages to public health are not yet well established. "

 

Of course, it then goes on to say how they will be regulated etc.

 

Which, surprisingly enough turns out to be 'very badly'.

 

The smoking ban has been in place for 8 years and yet the reason for it seems to have passed you by. The ban was not to protect the health of smokers. It was put in place to protect others from the harmful effects of 2nd hand smoke. So whilst E-cigarettes might or might not be more benefical to killing yourself with fags, the ban on their use in Wales is similarly designed to protect the public from any toxins that they might emit.

[Phanerothyme 12]

The smoking ban has been in place for 8 years and yet the reason for it seems to have passed you by. The ban was not to protect the health of smokers. It was put in place to protect others from the harmful effects of 2nd hand smoke. So whilst E-cigarettes might or might not be more benefical to killing yourself with fags, the ban on their use in Wales is similarly designed to protect the public from any toxins that they might emit.

 

It was specifically put in place to protect people in their place of employment from the potent carcinogens found in high quantities, in cigarette smoke, in confined areas.Carcinogens like tobacco specific nitrosamines (highly carcinogenic substances produced when proteins in tobacco are burnt), benzene and other hydrocarbons.

 

It was a ban based on evidence.

 

Spot the difference!

[mafya 248]

The smoking ban has been in place for 8 years and yet the reason for it seems to have passed you by. The ban was not to protect the health of smokers. It was put in place to protect others from the harmful effects of 2nd hand smoke. So whilst E-cigarettes might or might not be more benefical to killing yourself with fags, the ban on their use in Wales is similarly designed to protect the public from any toxins that they might emit.

 

Diesel vehicles churn out harmful to human pollutants/toxins etc, I don't see many people asking for diesel vehicles to be banned.

[biotechpete 10]

When you say "similar reactions" what do you mean? Potent carcinogenesis, or COPD? Dismay from onlookers? A slight rise in pulse and blood pressure? Self righteousness?

 

There are a lot of different reactions to cigarette smoke!

 

When you say "increasing amount of evidence" - what do you mean?

 

Did you read it in the paper? Was this a meta analysis in a peer reviewed journal of scientific repute? Is it the count of "negative" studies appearing on open access journals like PLOS?

 

I'm convinced that whilst there may be side effects from use (drying of the throat and lung, COPD) they provide a much less harmful route for people who enjoy the effects of nicotine.

 

Let's talk about nicotine, and why it's somehow axiomatically bad and immoral.

 

Nicotine increases the effects of many other drugs including alcohol and caffeine, nicotine has other positive effects too, including providing some degree of prophylaxis against Alzheimers Syndrome and Parkinson's Disease.

 

Of course it's lethal in large doses, but so are plenty of other things in daily life. We manage somehow.

 

What I mean is peer reviewed and to some extent unpublished, as yet, evidence from top journals and researchers, in the field of asthma and copd research.

 

For instance, mass spectrometry data which i have seen a summary of in a professional capacity, reveals that when you add heat and charge to the vapour of some of the most popular e-cig liquids, you do detect carcinogens and formaldehyde similar to those in cigarette smoke. They are not nearly as pure as the manufacturers claim. When you add these extracts to cells taken from human lungs in assays used to test new medications for copd, you see similar inflammation to what you would get from cigarette smoke. This correlates with reports of increased exhaled nitric oxide in passive vapers.

 

Equally, there is mounting evidence that nicotine itself is not only a carcinogen but also has epigenetic effects which lead to asthma in children. Meta analysis of smokeless tobacco use suggests that without smoking, there are cardiovascular disease risks, mostly related to nicotine. Contrary to common conjecture, the longer term effects of caffeine are not similar to nicotine in this regard.

 

In addition to the report of lipid pneumonia induced by inhaling glycerol, there are more subtle changes in surface lipids that can cause inflammation, irritation and susceptibility to infection.

 

---------- Post added 11-06-2015 at 22:20 ----------

 

Wouldnt surprise me if all these bans have the fag industry behind them in some way.

 

On the contrary, the tobacco industry owns popular brands of ecigarettes. The tobacco lobby makes money from the nicotine in ecigarettes and is firmly pro their use.

 

---------- Post added 11-06-2015 at 22:28 ----------

 

The smoking ban has been in place for 8 years and yet the reason for it seems to have passed you by. The ban was not to protect the health of smokers. It was put in place to protect others from the harmful effects of 2nd hand smoke. So whilst E-cigarettes might or might not be more benefical to killing yourself with fags, the ban on their use in Wales is similarly designed to protect the public from any toxins that they might emit.

 

Actually that was precisely one of the motivations. The aim was to denormalise cigarette smoking. Subsequently, studies have shown it worked, more people particularly men gave up smoking. This has coincided with lower rates of smoking related deaths and health care costs. Again contrary to popular conjecture, the government don't want smokers to keep smoking for the tax, the tax take is marginal at best and on balance less than the long term care costs for smokers (I have provided this evidence on the forum on more than one occasion, but alas don't have time to do do again because I need to carry on marking a thesis and writing a paper on the subject of COPD).

 

---------- Post added 11-06-2015 at 22:30 ----------

 

Diesel vehicles churn out harmful to human pollutants/toxins etc, I don't see many people asking for diesel vehicles to be banned.

 

The Low Emission Zone (LEZ) operates to encourage the most polluting heavy diesel vehicles driving in London to become cleaner. The LEZ covers most of Greater London and is in operation 24 hours a day, 365 days of the year.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/low-emission-zone

[bladesufc1 10]

Diesel vehicles churn out harmful to human pollutants/toxins etc, I don't see many people asking for diesel vehicles to be banned.

 

that's exactly what i say about this subject - people should be wearing gas masks at bus stops...

 

---------- Post added 30-07-2015 at 11:09 ----------

 

It's not evidence based. But then why should we ever expect evidence based legislation?

 

Also - what is the definition of an e-cig, exactly. What about e-pipes? Smoke machines? They all do the same thing - heat a glycerine/p.glycol fluid until it boils and atomises into a mist.

 

Fog machines aren't banned in public places. Yet.

 

If we are to legislate against ~

 

"objectionable" smells like " toilet air freshener" or "Bubble gum, peach, pina colada and all kind of other really sickly sweet smells"

 

~ then why stop at e-Cigs?

 

Wrong headed, fudged legislation, written by by the politically incompetent as an attempt to 'do something useful'.

 

 

its just something else for people to moan about..

 

---------- Post added 30-07-2015 at 11:11 ----------

 

What age do you have to be to "vape" I was on the supertram from halfway and some kids in school uniform got on near a school and they were "vaping" it did not smell though

 

by law 18+ years old

[Tim1 10]

that's exactly what i say about this subject - people should be wearing gas masks at bus stops...

 

---------- Post added 30-07-2015 at 11:09 ----------

 

 

 

its just something else for people to moan about..

 

---------- Post added 30-07-2015 at 11:11 ----------

 

 

by law 18+ years old

They got on with lots of other kids at the westfield stop. Can't be 18 in school uniform surely

[alchresearch 214]

They got on with lots of other kids at the westfield stop. Can't be 18 in school uniform surely

 

Sixth form?

[Tim1 10]

Sixth form?

They did not look old enough lol.

[ivan edake 13]

They are banned in Macdonalds.