If UK leaves Europe … a warning??

[I1L2T3 10]

But sadly often as cleaners and care workers

 

As doctors and nurses too. But you're right, if we don't use them it's our loss.

[loraward 10]

You must think there's a problem or you wouldn't have posted. How big is the problem?

 

---------- Post added 07-06-2015 at 13:28 ----------

 

 

Arguably its precursor was the ECSC which began in 1951.

 

I do think there's a problem but I doubt the government keeps statistics on such things.

[I1L2T3 10]

We won't be leaving the EU. Not a chance.

 

Obama looks forward to UK staying in EU

[tzijlstra 11]

In advance of the referendum I will be trying to get as much information as I can so I can make an informed choice.

 

I do remember when I was at school, one of our teachers used to get a lot of his information about European politics from the Jean Monet centre(?). I contacted them at the time (1987), & they sent me a load of beautifully illustrated information on glossy booklets about such things as the different institutions of Europe, their respective roles, the challenges they face, and on Erasmus etc. I was very impressed!

 

I've no idea if the Jean Monet centre still exists, or whether it would be the European Commission who would be responsible for publishing this information. I guess the Central Library in Sheffield would hold such information. It's well worth seeking out, if like me, you need more information & would like a counterbalance to most of the press - which is where many people will probably get their information from.

 

Very likely that you can go to the Central Library, I would think they hold the role of EU Information Point in South Yorkshire. Whether they fulfil that role appropriately is of course anybody's guess with the current cutbacks!

 

The EU, unlike the national government, also does an excellent job in keeping all their notes and minutes online. Check out europa.eu.

[Flanker7 20]

I guess we know which way the Conservatives are going to vote. The PM has said . . . .

 

a) The question which will be asked in the vote will be yes to staying in and no to going out. (Answers in the affirmative get a better response when everything else is equal.)

b) Tory ministers will be expected to tow the party line.

c) Civil Servants will be expected to tow the government line.

 

Call me a cynic but I think we are going to be sold the best renegotiation of terms that the world has ever seen.

[Alcoblog 10]

I think it is referring to Joschka Fischer, former Foreign Secretary of Germany and the man that founded the foreign policy for the EU.

 

He is right, the discourse on the topic is in need of a major boost. I am beginning to notice more and more noise about it though, and that will ramp up tenfold before the referendum. By the time the referendum comes the majority of people will understand that the sort of statement loraward is making here is the sort of simplistic view that doesn't cut the mustard.

 

Would this be English, French, German, or (yes ... they make it! ... ready? ... ) Dutch mustard?

If everyone embraces this 'Europe' claptrap, there'll be none of this anymore ... Brussels will insist it's all called European Sinapis, or some such garbage, and re-classify mustard as a tree dwelling mollusc which lives exclusively on a diet of un-bent bananas, spouting the same oral pâté that the Walloon(y)s have become famous for.

[Berberis 10]

I guess we know which way the Conservatives are going to vote. The PM has said . . . .

 

a) The question which will be asked in the vote will be yes to staying in and no to going out. (Answers in the affirmative get a better response when everything else is equal.)

b) Tory ministers will be expected to tow the party line.

c) Civil Servants will be expected to tow the government line.

 

Call me a cynic but I think we are going to be sold the best renegotiation of terms that the world has ever seen.

 

Civil Servants are not meant to tow ANY line, they are not political. They will be neutral and not give their opinion as they do before any General election. They are reminded of this before each election.

 

---------- Post added 07-06-2015 at 21:06 ----------

 

So are we saying not only do we not want their skills, that we don't want their money either?

 

Can you answer this question?

 

If 1,000 children arrive with their working parents into the UK who pays for the facilities needed to educate them the day they arrive?

 

If take this example, the new Don Vally school is going to cost £17 million. That school will have room for 1,222 pupils.

 

Average UK salary is £26,000 which results in an approx. contribution to the exchequer of £3,000pa. If each family that arrives has one child, thats £3,000,000 in a year in tax. If as is the average, these families have more than one child, that would mean a significant reduction in the tax contributions.

 

So to put it bluntly, it would take approx. 10 years in tax contributions for 1000 (ish) immigrant families to come to the UK for their contribution to be enough to cover the cost of just building a school to accommodate their children.

 

Now think of NHS costs, including doctors surgeries, hospitals, who pays for these too?

[Bigthumb 10]

It will ramp up because there is no doubt that core Tory policy is to stay in the EU. That policy aligns fully with the requirements of big business which is a grouping that does not want to see us leave the EU. It also aligns with US foreign policy that is for us to stay in the EU.

 

The Tories will not take us out. The biggest risk is not to us as a country but to the unity of the Tory party. That said love em or loathe em the Tories know how to nail a referendum and they'll do it. No probs.

 

There is a parallel with the recent Scottish referendum. The out campaign managed to ring many concessions out of the union government when it was perceived that Scotland might leave the union.

To me it is down to the EU leaders. If they want Britain to stay in the union then they need to make some concessions. At the moment I will be voting to leave the EU, and it will take rather more than gestures to alter my vote.

Do not think that Tory policy has anything to do with this. I couldn't give a toss what any party leaders might think on this issue and a lot of voters clearly feel the same.

[Harrystottle 10]

We won't be leaving the EU. Not a chance.

 

Obama looks forward to UK staying in EU

 

You've got that right. I have more chance of becoming the Head Rabbi than the UK has of leaving the EU.

 

---------- Post added 07-06-2015 at 21:27 ----------

 

There is a parallel with the recent Scottish referendum.

 

There is a massive parallel. The voters in Scotland were swayed to stay in by a campaign of exaggeration and outright lies, before reverting to the position that they wanted out again straight after the referendum. Which is exactly what will happen with the EU referendum, imo.

[I1L2T3 10]

Civil Servants are not meant to tow ANY line, they are not political. They will be neutral and not give their opinion as they do before any General election. They are reminded of this before each election.

 

---------- Post added 07-06-2015 at 21:06 ----------

 

 

Can you answer this question?

 

If 1,000 children arrive with their working parents into the UK who pays for the facilities needed to educate them the day they arrive?

 

If take this example, the new Don Vally school is going to cost £17 million. That school will have room for 1,222 pupils.

 

Average UK salary is £26,000 which results in an approx. contribution to the exchequer of £3,000pa. If each family that arrives has one child, thats £3,000,000 in a year in tax. If as is the average, these families have more than one child, that would mean a significant reduction in the tax contributions.

 

So to put it bluntly, it would take approx. 10 years in tax contributions for 1000 (ish) immigrant families to come to the UK for their contribution to be enough to cover the cost of just building a school to accommodate their children.

 

Now think of NHS costs, including doctors surgeries, hospitals, who pays for these too?

 

Doesn't work like that. Not all immigrants have children. Many immigrants have been here for some time already paying taxes. Immigrant children will be distributed across many schools.

 

Then your tax calculation is incorrect. You only include income tax, not national insurance, VAT or duty etc... Tax paid on an average wage is going to be at least double what you suggest.

 

Then you don't factor in the value added to UK companies when skills gaps are plugged, and the multiplier effect of that in the economy.

 

But let's just say that the school can be paid for in 5 years solely by the taxes from immigrants. That's a capital asset the country has gained that will be useful for decades to come. Not a bad deal really

[loraward 10]

Doesn't work like that. Not all immigrants have children. Many immigrants have been here for some time already paying taxes. Immigrant children will be distributed across many schools.

 

Then your tax calculation is incorrect. You only include income tax, not national insurance, VAT or duty etc... Tax paid on an average wage is going to be at least double what you suggest.

 

Then you don't factor in the value added to UK companies when skills gaps are plugged, and the multiplier effect of that in the economy.

 

But let's just say that the school can be paid for in 5 years solely by the taxes from immigrants. That's a capital asset the country has gained that will be useful for decades to come. Not a bad deal really

 

The UK population is the fastest growing population in Europe, its putting enormous pressure on public services, school and hospitals and all caused by immigration and the higher fertility rate of foreign born mothers. So no it isn't a good deal.

[dawny1970 10]

from a travel point of view, travelling via road in the eu, britain are not in the free movement agreement unlike the rest of europe, so im sorry but im for us leaving the eu anyway...what do we GAIN in the eu?