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Alleged assault on shoplifter in Tescos

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Am I the only one who doesn't think that that much 'force' was actually used?[/quote

 

The force used IMO was not reasonable.

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The security guards are not restraining that man. They are banging his head into a wall. That is not restraint and it is not reasonable force and there are 2 of them there are multiple other ways they could have legally stopped him from causing more damage. They simply decided to assault him and they should be charged. Security guards get my sympathy more often than not. They have to deal with similar trouble that the police do, but without any of the same legal protection, but on this occasion they have gone way too far without reason.

 

I have seen the video and it was disgraceful, he was calm when they barged in and smashed him to the floor.

 

But I have to say the two who went in dont look like security guards to me. That is not the tesco security uniform. Its the manager and shop floor uniform.

 

Might explain why they didnt do what they should have done.

 

---------- Post added 12-06-2015 at 19:33 ----------

 

The guy was merely having a casual smoke and they (the Security guard and store worker) went over the top. I have recently completed a door supervisor training course and have been taught that you should only ever use reasonable force, and what I saw in the clip was nowhere near reasonable.

 

Get back to the job centre pal.

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being taught reasonable force is one thing but what happens when ten squaddies want to come in and start kicking off? Reasonable force goes out the window. If you have to think about what force your going to use, you'll be on the ground knocked out.

 

That's why the hard as nails bouncers police the outside. The softer lads supervise inside. ;)

 

but just my tuppence worth :o

 

Punch for punch, kick for kick, etc are all counted as reasonable force. When an attacker or detainee is no longer a threat to himself or others and you go on in and proceed to stick your knee into his neck or punch him in the ribs that isn't reasonable force. As for being knocked out I know from personal experience that you should never let a potential threat or stranger (where possible) within arms length of you.

 

---------- Post added 12-06-2015 at 20:59 ----------

 

I have seen the video and it was disgraceful, he was calm when they barged in and smashed him to the floor.

 

But I have to say the two who went in dont look like security guards to me. That is not the tesco security uniform. Its the manager and shop floor uniform.

 

Might explain why they didnt do what they should have done.

 

---------- Post added 12-06-2015 at 19:33 ----------

 

 

Get back to the job centre pal.

 

I'm not your pal, keyboard warrior! :loopy:

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if you cannot remain civil i will be happy to suspend your accounts.

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Are they allowed to go through his pockets for personal stuff, which it looked like in the video.

And is it shoplifting if he hadn't actually left the store, some of the comments seem to imply he didn't.

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Are they allowed to go through his pockets for personal stuff, which it looked like in the video.

And is it shoplifting if he hadn't actually left the store, some of the comments seem to imply he didn't.

 

Taken from -

http://www.sialicencehub.co.uk/security-guard-search-procedures/

 

Where relevant, ask permission before conducting a search

Show respect and empathy through out the search process. Some people may feel very uncomfortable, others may have mobility issues – both of which should be considered.

 

During each search you are representing the company you work for.

Keep a steady control of the process and do not allow others to interfere.

If possible conduct the search where others cannot observe

The individual you are searching should be allowed to assist by emptying their bag and pocket and removing items of clothing such as their jacket.

Wherever possible, same sex searches should be conducted. This helps where a person may be embarrassed about being searched.

 

If at all possible, have a colleague with you during a search. This will help serve as a witness should a person accuse anyone of misconduct as a result of the search.

 

Respect and empathy appeared to be the last thing on their minds and it doesn't appear like they had his permission?

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The staff might have thought they would get hurt of they didn't take action. Preemptive strike. Plus how is it heavy handed to throw water at him? You can't hear the sound so he could be threatening to do anything!

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The staff might have thought they would get hurt of they didn't take action. Preemptive strike. Plus how is it heavy handed to throw water at him? You can't hear the sound so he could be threatening to do anything!

 

What they did was not lawfull under the circumstances, the suspects body language doesn't seem aggressive or that he is about to lash out as he is sat down so the pre emotive strike bit doesn't come into it.

Why didn't they just lock the door till the police arrived?

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What they did was not lawfull under the circumstances, the suspects body language doesn't seem aggressive or that he is about to lash out as he is sat down so the pre emotive strike bit doesn't come into it.

Why didn't they just lock the door till the police arrived?

 

I totally agree, if they're not in the room with him they won't be injured, and no doubt he would calm down. If he was threatening them at the time he was smoking, he wouldn't be sitting down his mannerisms would be more aggressive.

I don't know much about store security, but I have worked in mental health for many years, they shouldn't have put themselves at risk, and left it to professionals.

Simon didn't seem to have an aggressive response to the police, but as no one can hear what is bring said, it looked like he only reacted to the treatment he was given by store staff.

I bet many people defending them wouldn't if it was their relative.

Edited by trackrunner

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As for being knocked out I know from personal experience that you should never let a potential threat or stranger (where possible) within arms length of you.

 

So how would you tell the potential threat to move before you got knocked out? You'd have to use force before the guy decided to knock you out. Therefore in your words it wouldn't be reasonable as you aren't allowed to attack someone you 'THINK' might be wanting to punch you. confused??

 

I'd choose common sense anytime over your reasonable force manuals ;)

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Just goes to show how educated tesco staff are when dealing with mentally impaired people. This bunch should be sacked and the whole tesco workforce retrained. They should shut all tesco stores until staff can be shown to be able to act in a satisfactory manner.

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He could have been threatening their families. Their children, there's no audio so we don't know what he was saying. I don't condone their actions at all and think the fire extinguisher for the cigarette was completely ott but if somebody threatened my family I may react in a similar way. Maybe it was just instinctive? I'm sure they regret it now.

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