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The Plough at Sandygate

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It's never been a free house though (only tied), and that's what you need it to be to succeed in upmarket areas.

 

It couldn't possibly have been any good while owned by a cheap 'n' cheerful pubco like Enterprise

 

When Mark and Anna had the Plough, a decade ago, it was busy most nights, and they did a ton of food (Mark was a chef), they had Daryl, the Canadian chef (great guitar player!) and they had a load of bar staff as they needed at least three serving most nights.

 

When they finally left The Plough, the reason was (surprise, surprise) Enterprise. I had a beer with Mark last year when I saw him at the Rising Sun beer festival and he said The Plough would have been a gold mine if not for Enterprise.

 

They would come in and look at his books, see his takings go up and say "well you seem to be doing great at the minute Mark, we need to increase your rent", or when he did well with certain beers it was "Looks like the beer is flying out at the minute Mark, we need to increase your barrel prices!".

 

It seems like the only industry where you get penalised for being successful, in just about every other industry, you get discounts for ordering more products, you don't pay more.

 

Enterprise put 100% mark up on beers, so any beers that any landlord could buy, say, for £50 from Kelham Island directly, they have to buy for £100 from Enterprise (or one of their subsidiaries).

 

---------- Post added 14-11-2017 at 09:57 ----------

 

Isn’t the sportsman at crosspool an ember inn? Not sure about florentine, Ranmoor, rising sun etc but think more to it than tied or freehouse.

 

Rising Sun is owned by Abbeydale Brewery, or was. Sportsman and Crosspool Tavern are Mitchell and Butlers (under two different pub brands). Not sure about Florentine. Ranmoor Inn and Bulls Head were both Enterprise from memory.

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When Mark and Anna had the Plough, a decade ago, it was busy most nights, and they did a ton of food (Mark was a chef), they had Daryl, the Canadian chef (great guitar player!) and they had a load of bar staff as they needed at least three serving most nights.

 

When they finally left The Plough, the reason was (surprise, surprise) Enterprise. I had a beer with Mark last year when I saw him at the Rising Sun beer festival and he said The Plough would have been a gold mine if not for Enterprise.

 

They would come in and look at his books, see his takings go up and say "well you seem to be doing great at the minute Mark, we need to increase your rent", or when he did well with certain beers it was "Looks like the beer is flying out at the minute Mark, we need to increase your barrel prices!".

 

It seems like the only industry where you get penalised for being successful, in just about every other industry, you get discounts for ordering more products, you don't pay more.

 

Enterprise put 100% mark up on beers, so any beers that any landlord could buy, say, for £50 from Kelham Island directly, they have to buy for £100 from Enterprise (or one of their subsidiaries).

 

---------- Post added 14-11-2017 at 09:57 ----------

 

 

Rising Sun is owned by Abbeydale Brewery, or was. Sportsman and Crosspool Tavern are Mitchell and Butlers (under two different pub brands). Not sure about Florentine. Ranmoor Inn and Bulls Head were both Enterprise from memory.

 

Florentine is part of Marstons.

 

The effect of a tie can have an impact on a pub. The Ranmoor inn and Bulls Head are tied to Enterprise. The Ranmoort is a different proposition to the Plough, the Bulls Head is more comparable and has also struggled for a while.

 

I think a better brewery, or free of tie altogether, and there's no reason the plough couldn't do ok. It's got the space and location to do well.

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Florentine is part of Marstons.

 

The effect of a tie can have an impact on a pub. The Ranmoor inn and Bulls Head are tied to Enterprise. The Ranmoort is a different proposition to the Plough, the Bulls Head is more comparable and has also struggled for a while.

 

I think a better brewery, or free of tie altogether, and there's no reason the plough couldn't do ok. It's got the space and location to do well.

 

I think if one of the local breweries got it, or one of the local pub operators, they could do well. The bigger operators were put off by the small car parks, which is why Marstons ended up buying the Shiny Sheff. I can't remember if Thwaites came and looked at it, but they usually look for out of town traditional pubs and put food on and their own beers.

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I get all the above but still don't see why been owned by enterprise=failing pub.

 

They get a lot of stick but if their business model didn't work we wouldn't be talking about them and the pubs they own.

 

How does a change in ownership lead to a fall in trade and ultimately closure?

 

beer prices? food? atmosphere? service?

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I get all the above but still don't see why been owned by enterprise=failing pub.

 

They get a lot of stick but if their business model didn't work we wouldn't be talking about them and the pubs they own.

 

How does a change in ownership lead to a fall in trade and ultimately closure?

 

beer prices? food? atmosphere? service?

 

Well the argument would be that the pub business model doesn't really work - which is why scores of previous enterprise pubs have now closed down across the city / country.

 

Enterprise maintain the value of the property though - which can be sold off put to other use etc.

 

Some pubs are just popular / in good locations etc so naturally do well in spite of Enterprise rather than because of it. Other pubs which are perhaps not as well established can't take the squeeze and close.

 

If you google the subject you will find plenty of examples.

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It is not all about Enterprise, in my opinion, I ran an Enterprise pub for 15 years and would do so again, given the chance.

 

A lot of the bad press they get it from many years ago when they had unscrupulous area managers who tried to get every last drop, and more, from every site (I know, I had one). However over the last 6 - 8 years I have found them to be a lot more flexible and understanding.

 

Personally I think it depends on what the manager wants from the business compared to what they are prepared to put in. No-one sets up a brand new business and takes out the wages that they will earn five years down the line once the company has become successful.

 

Having been content to earn (just about) a living wage and being okay with having only 2 weeks a year holiday, whilst doing a job I loved, I think that is a fair balance.

 

These are only my personal opinions and I'm sure many people will disagree, but I thought I would add my twopence worth anyway.

 

BB.

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It is not all about Enterprise, in my opinion, I ran an Enterprise pub for 15 years and would do so again, given the chance.

 

A lot of the bad press they get it from many years ago when they had unscrupulous area managers who tried to get every last drop, and more, from every site (I know, I had one). However over the last 6 - 8 years I have found them to be a lot more flexible and understanding.

 

Personally I think it depends on what the manager wants from the business compared to what they are prepared to put in. No-one sets up a brand new business and takes out the wages that they will earn five years down the line once the company has become successful.

 

Having been content to earn (just about) a living wage and being okay with having only 2 weeks a year holiday, whilst doing a job I loved, I think that is a fair balance.

 

These are only my personal opinions and I'm sure many people will disagree, but I thought I would add my twopence worth anyway.

 

BB.

 

Yes from what I have read they have changed probably because they have had too and can offer packages where you can buy your own beer but obviously you will not get a heavily subsidised rent.

 

I would imagine in a place like this which has for sometime been sitting empty they would be quite accommodating to at least get someone in paying something and maintaining the building rather than it sitting empty.

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Yes from what I have read they have changed probably because they have had too and can offer packages where you can buy your own beer but obviously you will not get a heavily subsidised rent.

 

I would imagine in a place like this which has for sometime been sitting empty they would be quite accommodating to at least get someone in paying something and maintaining the building rather than it sitting empty.

 

Well you would think so wouldn't you? But that sounds too much like common sense! :hihi:

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Empty buildings fall into disrepair quickly and become unsafe.

Then they need to be knocked down.

Job done for Spacepad ;)

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Sounds like the Enterprise have not actually sold the Plough, but done an internal transfer to one of their new property divisions, to maximise the value of the land, if what I heard yesterday is correct.

 

Would make sense, t'owd Plattsy doesn't have the money for a project on that scale, but could front it for Enterprise.

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Drove past this morning and it's all fenced off and looking very sorry for itself TBH. I can see it falling to dereliction very fast. Shame, as used to be one of my favourite locals, a very lively place at one time. Of course, I am going FAR back into time, when a pint was only 50 pence!! About 8 years ago I viewed this as a potential pub to take on, while it was still open but not exactly thriving. Can't remember the name of the Area Manager now but the rent was utterly REDICULOUS at the time and no chance of any profit from it at all, so had to walk away. Shame, as I liked it's 'atmosphere'.

 

Sadly missed as a 'proper' local, in the old skool pub sense. Must do a photoshoot before it starts to look any worse.

Edited by goldenfleece

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Drove past this morning and it's all fenced off and looking very sorry for itself TBH. I can see it falling to dereliction very fast. Shame, as used to be one of my favourite locals, a very lively place at one time. Of course, I am going FAR back into time, when a pint was only 50 pence!! About 8 years ago I viewed this as a potential pub to take on, while it was still open but not exactly thriving. Can't remember the name of the Area Manager now but the rent was utterly REDICULOUS at the time and no chance of any profit from it at all, so had to walk away. Shame, as I liked it's 'atmosphere'.

 

Sadly missed as a 'proper' local, in the old skool pub sense. Must do a photoshoot before it starts to look any worse.

 

The are manager was "Mike" something or other, from memory. Clueless.

 

Enterprise are a joke, no wonder they are in massive debt.

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