Save the 12 Trees on Rustlings Road - Please sign Petition

[johnnyeng 10]

Good idea mate :-)

[Lotusflower 10]

What petard are you on about? All the trees were surveyed before Amey won the tender. I'll accept your apology in advance since I'm trying to help.

 

It's very possible that the campaign is aiming at the wrong thing - trees!

 

Looking at negotiations between the council and Amey for post contract award cost savings might be more fruitful.

 

IF I'm right, focussing on perfectly good, logical, and sometimes emotional facts about trees, pavements, access, etc. is interesting but it is missing the point because IF I'm right, the trees are just collateral damage in the council's desire to find financial savings, or Ameys to offer them and pocket a bit of them for themselves. Money is what's important to the council in 2015, not trees, so any logical points about preserving trees goes over their head.

 

It's standard procedure in any large contract and although I don't know what is in the Amey contract I'd be very surprised if there isn't any option to save money by negotiation. How the campaign deals with it needs a bit of thinking about. Breaking FOI requests into lots of smaller and very specific questions is a good start.

 

In a battle you need to understand the enemy, not their smokescreen.

 

Observations on your comments above.

 

IF...you are right. IF!

 

What is "emotional" about bringing attention to a misguided council intent on removing 50% of street trees in Sheffield and replacing them with saplings?

Answer me that please.

Some of the reasons for intended removal as displayed on notices attached to trees are very obviously a load of codswallop intended to fool the gullible and the acquiescent. I have been on these streets and seen with my own eyes! Where have you been?

 

When I read references to "collateral damage" and "efforts to find financial savings" I realise I am in debate with someone who appears to know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

 

Sheffield is one of the most polluted cities in this country. Levels of traffic pollution are actually increasing. Levels of childhood respiratory diseases are amongst the highest in the country. How do you weigh these "financial savings" against the health of children in Sheffield?

 

What do you think the effect on wildlife will be?

 

Sheffield City Council will argue that they replace every tree removed, although not necessarily in the location from which they were removed.

 

Well...I will give you the same answer I have given them...just follow this link.

They chose to IGNORE it. You say you want to help so what will you do?

 

http://www.treeworks.co.uk/downloads/s15speakers/Mark_Johnston_Myerscough_College_Trees_in_Towns_II.pdf

 

Page 20 in particular should have particular relevance to anyone wanting to accuse someone of having an "emotional" argument!

[Eric Arthur 10]

There you go, getting all emotional. You will lose. Trust me.

 

Take it from somebody who negotiates massive contracts, emotions won't count for anything in the town hall if they are fixed on saving money and Amey are fixed on making a few extra millions from sharing the savings, while all along you are banging on with existential arguments like childhood respiratory disease.

 

I'm just trying to help you win because weirdly I like trees too.

[Lotusflower 10]

There you go, getting all emotional. You will lose. Trust me.

 

Take it from somebody who negotiates massive contracts, emotions won't count for anything in the town hall if they are fixed on saving money and Amey are fixed on making a few extra millions from sharing the savings, while all along you are banging on with existential arguments like childhood respiratory disease.

 

I'm just trying to help you win because weirdly I like trees too.

 

Re my bold.

 

Tell the parents of a child suffering from chronic emphysema or asthma that they are being "emotional" or that their concerns are "existential!"

 

No response to the pollution levels in your reply...any particular reason for that omission?

 

If you just want to accuse me of being "emotional" and "banging on" instead of countering what I've said with something constructive then we are done here.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Lotusflower
Afterthought.

[stressconsul 10]

Indeed, asthma is not a trivial condition and kills three people every day in the UK.

[Eric Arthur 10]

With listening and negotiating skills like that I'm sure you'll have them sumbitting to your demands in no time. ******* off supporters isn't going to help you.

 

I'll leave you with a reminder about the only thing that matters: They don't care about anything but the money. If they cared about your opinion on trees they would have changed their plans already.

 

Good luck. You're going to need it.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Eric Arthur

[Lotusflower 10]

With listening and negotiating skills like that I'm sure you'll have them sumbitting to your demands in no time. ******* off supporters isn't going to help you.

 

I'll leave you with a reminder about the only thing that matters: They don't care about anything but the money. If they cared about your opinion on trees they would have changed their plans already.

 

Good luck. You're going to need it.

 

Re my bold.

 

Thankyou!

[Solomon1 10]

They don't care about anything but the money

 

And we don't care about anything

 

But the trees

 

So if SCC don't change their arrogant, dismissive attitude

 

To people's health and well being

 

They will continue to be met with

 

VERY angry residents, seeing them off with pitchforks!!!

 

It's their choice

 

[1978 14]

Have stayed out of this up to now, not least because we lost the large flowering cherry tree opposite our house about 10 years ago. All over in a week and no notice whatsoever. After protest we were assured it wasn't in need of pruning as had been requested, but needed total removal as it was diseased and dangerous.

 

Several of us protested and it was agreed that it would be better if residents were advised in future, before the tree came down. At least that protest bore positive fruit.

 

We were told we could buy a new tree for about £140, which we did, and they'd plant it as soon as the season was right. To be fair, they did, and after about 10 years we have a nice, but much smaller, flowering cherry tree. The old one must have been about 40 years old, and about half its contemporary trees had previously been removed without replacement. Looking at them, almost all the other original trees on our road are likely to be condemned.

 

The upside is that we'll get new replacements at zero cost to residents.

 

It has been stated that 50% of street trees will be lost. Round here 50% have already been lost without replacement. The Amey plans will be a big improvement on our estate, although there'll be short term pain, no doubt. However, if they were to replace the other trees we've previously lost it really would be a benefit to the Sheffield environment.

 

Statistically, I have some doubts as to how much difference clearing a relatively small proportion of Sheffield's trees will make to the environment. Particularly, in the western leafy suburbs the net gain in growth of all trees in parkland and gardens will be substantially greater than that lost from the relatively few trees that will be lost. In the city centre there are few trees to be lost, but quite a few have been planted in recent years.

[Eric Arthur 10]

And we don't care about anything

 

But the trees

 

So if SCC don't change their arrogant, dismissive attitude

 

To people's health and well being

 

They will continue to be met with

 

VERY angry residents, seeing them off with pitchforks!!!

 

It's their choice

 

I understand what you are saying, I'm just trying to shine a light on what its like to negotiate in these situations. The council and Amey just don't care. The council can't afford to care. Amey are there to make money. That means that you have to take the fight to them in a way that they will understand and care about. Money. Votes. Not emotion. Not even being right.

 

Look what happened to the last person who cared enough about how the environment affects health. http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/sheffield-council-s-director-of-public-health-jeremy-wight-announces-resignation-1-7037572

 

Be smart or they will just swat you away.

[Lotusflower 10]

I understand what you are saying, I'm just trying to shine a light on what its like to negotiate in these situations. The council and Amey just don't care. The council can't afford to care. Amey are there to make money. That means that you have to take the fight to them in a way that they will understand and care about. Money. Votes. Not emotion. Not even being right.

 

Look what happened to the last person who cared enough about how the environment affects health. http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/sheffield-council-s-director-of-public-health-jeremy-wight-announces-resignation-1-7037572

 

Be smart or they will just swat you away.

 

Re my bold.

 

With council elections due next year that will see every single councillor stand for re-election I wonder how much more it will take for the Labour Group to wake up and realise that they are shooting themselves in the foot over this issue.

The protest against current policy is growing apace. People across the city are beginning to wake up to what is happening.

 

All those councillors who voted to continue the current policy should take note...

 

...VOTES will be lost and lost in big numbers!

 

For the avoidance of all doubt...I am not a member of any political party and do not support any political party!

[Eric Arthur 10]

Very few people will change their vote because of trees felling and if votes were an issue to the councillors you should have made more progress by now. Follow the money.