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Muslim printers, must they print Mohammed cartoons?

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Surely no different then a pub landlord refusing to serve a patron. Only he doesn't have to give any reason but has the right not to serve a patron.

 

The bakery could have just said they were too busy or something, and this would have been a non-story.

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I know what the judge said and I disagree with her, the baker would have refused to bake that cake for everyone, and would have baked a different cake for a gay person, therefor it wasn't discrimination, it was simply a religious person expressing their right to refuse to sell something that they felt went against their religious beliefs.

 

Generally, I think business owners should have a right not to take on business they don't want. If I was a printer, I wouldn't print UKIP literature, for example. I think if Ashers are guilty of anything it's naive honesty. However, the judgement has been passed that, on the balance of probability, Ashers were discriminatory. I wasn't in court, although I have read the judgement. My problem with this thread is that knee-jerk, knuckle-dragging response to such cases which can be broadly summarised as "ooh, but you can't do it to the muslims"

 

Request number 4 loraward; what protected characteristic would a person have which led them to request Mohammed pictures printing? Or perhaps my assumption is correct, that there isn't one?

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The judge concluded that, on balance, the defendants knew that the plaintiff was a gay man and discriminated against him on the grounds of his sexuality. For the third time, what protected characteristic would a person have which led to them wanting Mohammed pictures printing?

 

In that case he would be fine refusing to bake this same cake if the customer wasn't gay. How would he tell?

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In that case he would be fine refusing to bake this same cake if the customer wasn't gay. How would he tell?

 

As per my post #14 I'm not sure I agree with the judgement, however, that's what it is. The judge concluded that the defendant knew that the plaintiff was gay and discriminated on those grounds. I wonder (although I'm no expert) whether the bit in the testimony about why they didn't say anything at the time of the order swung that view?

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Generally, I think business owners should have a right not to take on business they don't want. If I was a printer, I wouldn't print UKIP literature, for example. I think if Ashers are guilty of anything it's naive honesty. However, the judgement has been passed that, on the balance of probability, Ashers were discriminatory. I wasn't in court, although I have read the judgement. My problem with this thread is that knee-jerk, knuckle-dragging response to such cases which can be broadly summarised as "ooh, but you can't do it to the muslims"

 

Request number 4 loraward; what protected characteristic would a person have which led them to request Mohammed pictures printing? Or perhaps my assumption is correct, that there isn't one?

 

There hasn't been a knee-jerk, knuckle-dragging response.

 

They could have any protected characteristics, a religious, ethnic minority, lesbian with a disability could have asked for a picture of Mohammed shouting "I support gay marriage" on a T shirt, but it wouldn't alter my opinion that a Muslim printer should have the right to refuse that business.

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That's an interesting point I hadn't thought of. What do our resident Muslims think about this? Would it be discrimination is a Muslim baker refused to bake this cake or a Muslim printer to print a poster of Mohammed. Would they refuse and be open to the same civil proceedings?

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It isn't the same. The clue is the piece of legislation used to secure this outcome

 

I`m afraid it is charmer.

 

---------- Post added 20-05-2015 at 17:36 ----------

 

Just think the whole thing is very silly. Lets get on with life and if someone says I ain't going to bake you a cake then go to the next cake shop eh!!!???

 

Some people just can`t accept others have differing opinions.

 

---------- Post added 20-05-2015 at 17:38 ----------

 

The best way round this sort of thing is to quote a ridiculously high price.

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There hasn't been a knee-jerk, knuckle-dragging response.

 

They could have any protected characteristics, a religious, ethnic minority, lesbian with a disability could have asked for a picture of Mohammed shouting "I support gay marriage" on a T shirt, but it wouldn't alter my opinion that a Muslim printer should have the right to refuse that business.

 

Yes there really has been a knee - jerk, knuckle-dragging reaction. You must just be looking at it funny.

 

The person you describe, the religious, ethnic minority lesbian with a disability, could go to a muslim printer and ask for said picture printing. They'd probably refuse. She could then go to court stating she'd been discriminated against. Now, think carefully. Why would a judge be convinced that she had been discriminated against, in terms of the protected characteristics? What is it about her being gay, female, minority ethnic or disabled that associates her with wanting this picture printing? Nothing. That's the difference. I'm not sure I agree with the ruling in the Ashers case myself, but that's what it rests on. To conclude that it therefore means black paraplegic christian lesbians can demand muslim printers to print pictures of mohammed is ill-informed and slightly cretinous.

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Yes there really has been a knee - jerk, knuckle-dragging reaction. You must just be looking at it funny.

 

The person you describe, the religious, ethnic minority lesbian with a disability, could go to a muslim printer and ask for said picture printing. They'd probably refuse. She could then go to court stating she'd been discriminated against. Now, think carefully. Why would a judge be convinced that she had been discriminated against, in terms of the protected characteristics? What is it about her being gay, female, minority ethnic or disabled that associates her with wanting this picture printing? Nothing. That's the difference. I'm not sure I agree with the ruling in the Ashers case myself, but that's what it rests on. To conclude that it therefore means black paraplegic christian lesbians can demand muslim printers to print pictures of mohammed is ill-informed and slightly cretinous.

Millions of people have been married and I doubt that any of them had the words support heterosexual marriage on their cake, I can't think a reason to have the words support gay marriage on a wedding cake, why would anyone getting married want it on their wedding cake. If they wanted to cause some trouble for people that oppose gay marriage, asking them to bake such a cake would have the desired affect.

 

So the reason a lesbian might ask Muslims to print a picture of Mohammad on a T shirt with the word I love lesbians, is to push it down their thoughts that their beliefs are wrong.

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Millions of people have been married and I doubt that any of them had the words support heterosexual marriage on their cake, I can't think a reason to have the words support gay marriage on a wedding cake, why would anyone getting married want it on their wedding cake. If they wanted to cause some trouble for people that oppose gay marriage, asking them to bake such a cake would have the desired affect.

 

So the reason a lesbian might ask Muslims to print a picture of Mohammad on a T shirt with the word I love lesbians, is to push it down their thoughts that their beliefs are wrong.

 

Christ you're hard of thinking.

 

1. It wasn't a wedding cake.

2. The judge found that the message on the cake was consistent with the plaintiff's inhabiting his sexuality

3. The t-shirt you bizarrely describe is unlikely to be consistent with your mythical minority ethnic, religious, disabled lesbian's inhabiting of their protected characteristics.

4. Why don't you just go and read the judgement? It just might help stop you making a complete lackwit of yourself on here.

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Christ you're hard of thinking.

 

 

Once you become abusive the discussion is all but over, you have failed to make your point so resort to abuse.

 

I read the judgement and I disagree with it, the difference between us is that I can disagree with someone without verbally abusing them.

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Once you become abusive the discussion is all but over, you have failed to make your point so resort to abuse.

 

I read the judgement and I disagree with it, the difference between us is that I can disagree with someone without verbally abusing them.

 

You're incredibly sensitive for someone who vociferously supports a government that is sticking the boot into the most hard up members in our society!

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