esme   10 #85 Posted May 19, 2015 Because they set out to make a point.No they didn't, they'd used this particular baker before without incident and had no expectation that this time would be any different. Item 7 of the Plaintiffs evidence The Plaintiff decided to purchase a cake for the event. He had previously purchased items at this branch of the 1st Defendant Company and had become aware from a leaflet that he could have a cake iced with a graphic of his own design. Full transcript is here it's a PDF of a scanned document, so no searching is available & you'll have to type any quotes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
loraward   10 #86 Posted May 19, 2015 I don't know what you're point is. If we're going to the letter of the word of God I recall mixing clothing fibres could be against their beliefs.  God helps those who help themselves!  What does God have to do with it, its about an individuals religious beliefs.  Freedom of religion or freedom of belief is a principle that supports the freedom of an individual or community, in public or private, to manifest religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship, and observance.  Dictating what they can and can not do goes against that religious freedom. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Magilla   510 #87 Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) Separating the person from their beliefs isn't possible, their beliefs make them the person they are and influence every aspect of their life. They can't simply turn them off because they choose to go to work or run a business.  I'll wager many people do that every day to keep a roof over their heads.  I asked before, if people are allowed to discriminate based on their religious (or any other) beliefs, how much discrimination would be too much? What forms of discrimination would be "out of order" in your book? Edited May 19, 2015 by Magilla Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
esme   10 #88 Posted May 19, 2015 What does God have to do with it, its about an individuals religious beliefs. Freedom of religion or freedom of belief is a principle that supports the freedom of an individual or community, in public or private, to manifest religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship, and observance.  Dictating what they can and can not do goes against that religious freedom. Top of page 7, item 28Equality act( Sexual Orientation) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2006 [2006 Regulations] ... Regulation 16 Organisations relating to religion or belief ... (2) This Regulation does not apply - (a) to an organisation whose sole or main purpose is commercial; or ... the Baker is a limited company who's sole or main purpose is commerce, hence they cannot claim rights under Article 9 of the ECHR which is pretty much what is said on page 40 & 41 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
francypants   437 #89 Posted May 19, 2015 Surely they only become "fairy cakes" when you slice the top off, break it in half, and then put the pieces back in to the topping to make "wings". As in. "Like fairies."   No..... these are known as butterfly cakes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
flamingjimmy   10 #90 Posted May 19, 2015 No they didn't, they'd used this particular baker before without incident and had no expectation that this time would be any different. Item 7 of the Plaintiffs evidenceFull transcript is here it's a PDF of a scanned document, so no searching is available & you'll have to type any quotes.  Wow, I didn't know that was public, what a great resource thanks, I have some reading to do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
loraward   10 #91 Posted May 19, 2015 I'll wager many people do that every day to keep a roof over their heads. I asked before, if people are allowed to discriminate based on their religious (or any other) beliefs, how much discrimination would be too much? What forms of discrimination would be "out of order" in your book?  I haven't said they should be allowed to discriminate, what I have said is that if they can't, they don't have freedom of religion, because restricting what they can or cannot do isn't freedom.  I don't think government and the public sector should discriminate against anyone, but I do think a private business or individual should be allowed to serve or not serve anyone they wish. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
JFKvsNixon   10 #92 Posted May 19, 2015 I haven't said they should be allowed to discriminate, what I have said is that if they can't, they don't have freedom of religion, because restricting what they can or cannot do isn't freedom.  I don't think government and the public sector should discriminate against anyone, but I do think a private business or individual should be allowed to serve or not serve anyone they wish.  So you'd allow the old "no blacks or Irish" signs to go back up, and you'd be comfortable with that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
waldershelf   10 #93 Posted May 19, 2015 Whilst I support the gay couples right to their freedom to continue their lives in a world free from prejudice, I also think that the cake shop owners should be afforded the same right to their personal beliefs and convictions and be allowed to conduct their lives with the same sort of choices that the gay couple are struggling for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
MikeFrank   10 #94 Posted May 19, 2015 I can't understand the gay opposition thing. Who cares, its up to them... And if there is a God I'm sure he would be supporting Gays in issues like this...  As for those who are supporting the bakery in their stance. I'm sure they wouldn't support it if it was a Sharia judgement...  Religion on the who, is bad for the world... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
SnailyBoy   10 #95 Posted May 19, 2015 Whilst I support the gay couples right to their freedom to continue their lives in a world free from prejudice, I also think that the cake shop owners should be afforded the same right to their personal beliefs and convictions and be allowed to conduct their lives with the same sort of choices that the gay couple are struggling for.  Not really the same though, is it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
loraward   10 #96 Posted May 19, 2015 So you'd allow the old "no blacks or Irish" signs to go back up, and you'd be comfortable with that?  I'd also allow no whites or English, blacks only, gays only, women only, men only, ect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...