Should Labour move right or left?

[alchresearch 214]

I think the ID card fiasco was another factor in Labour's 2010 defeat. And the PFI disasters which were surfacing.

[salou4 10]

I've given statistics and facts to support this on other threads, so won't repeat them here, .

 

No you haven't, you've just expressed your opinions as if they are facts.

Here's a fact for you: No Labour Government has ever left office with unemployment lower than when it came in.

That's a shameful record for a party that claims to be "for the working man".

[Titanic99 10]

No you haven't, you've just expressed your opinions as if they are facts.

Here's a fact for you: No Labour Government has ever left office with unemployment lower than when it came in.

That's a shameful record for a party that claims to be "for the working man".

 

That one statement sums up the ignorance of the electorate as much as any other.

 

What it tries to do is make it look like Labours record on employment was worse that it was when it came to office.

 

What it fails to do is mention is the years before the financial crisis where in every year it was lower than the so called employment miracle we are seeing now.

 

Here’s the graph that shows it, so if the Tories are to be commended for the current figures why can’t we recognise it was even better most of the time under Labour.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10604117

[DrNorm 10]

The Labour party is certainly doomed if it has people in it who think that "reining in spending" is the way to boost the economy.

 

Spending to boost the economy is a short term fix if it's not targeted spending. It's like burning fivers to keep warm. Yes you're warmer in the short run, but what about tomorrow?

 

We must invest in the right things for tomorrow that will stimulate a productive economy. Merely loosening the purse strings and seeing what happens is not the best use of the resources that we do have.

 

We need a strong government focused on social justice, but the foundation of a strong government isn't one that's crippled by debt. Like it or not public resources come from taxing private individuals and companies. A strong economy is the basis of a strong nation. (There is a strong case to rebalance taxation and have tighter regulation, but those policies must go hand in hand with responsible spending).

 

Yes, the left are hampered by a mostly hostile right wing press, but they'd do themselves a big favour and make fewer enemies if they woke up to the realities a responsible government must face: you can't continue to borrow and ignore the need for an enterprising economy (noting the distinction between valuable entrepreneurs and parasitic speculators).

 

---------- Post added 24-05-2015 at 15:15 ----------

 

For all Blair's faults, and there were plenty of them, he knew how to win elections. The trick is, to work out why and how Blair won the elections.

 

I think he recognised that a political party must straddle more than one point on the political spectrum.

 

When I say I'm to the right within the party, that doesn't mean I'm picking a fight with those whose views are to the left. I recognise that others within the party have differing views, but try not to lose sight of a common cause that will be beneficial for all.

 

The Labour Party must recognise differences within its ranks but work for common causes if it is to survive and become electable again.

 

In today's Observer, David Skelton (Tory) is quoted as saying "The skilled working class deserted Labour in 2010 and haven't come back. There is a really big opportunity for the Tories there."

 

The Tories are muscling in on what should be natural Labour territory.

 

The Labour party must not give up on the skilled working class, non-union members, aspirational voters or any other voter they can find common cause in establishing a society with equal opportunities and social justice.

Edited May 24, 2015 by DrNorm

[Tommo68 10]

Labour ought to ask their own party members questions like this.

 

They provide a sort of function in parliament bringing to people's attention things that the press won't or perhaps can't about the conservatives but were it no tfor that I'd suggest that they just go away.

.

[DrNorm 10]

"Blue collar Conservatives"? I heard this term used on the radio this morning. I can't say I was listening, but it's obviously a term relating the skilled working class who have deserted Labour.

 

As I've said, the Labour party needs to bury differences and find ways to build on the common causes they share with blue collar workers (skilled working class/aspirational voters/non-union members).

 

After all what's the point of being a political party which focuses on the differences between its members and causing potential allies to defect to the other side?

[alchresearch 214]

Did anyone see Harriet Harman on Andrew Marr on Sunday? Agreeing with and supporting the Tories on the EU referendum.

[anarchist 10]

That one statement sums up the ignorance of the electorate as much as any other.

 

What it tries to do is make it look like Labours record on employment was worse that it was when it came to office.

 

What it fails to do is mention is the years before the financial crisis where in every year it was lower than the so called employment miracle we are seeing now.

 

Here’s the graph that shows it, so if the Tories are to be commended for the current figures why can’t we recognise it was even better most of the time:loopy: under Labour.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10604117

 

That's a bit lame isn't it? That's rather like saying a gambler was successful because he won on the first race before losing his shirt on the 2nd, or a runner was successful because he was leading after one lap but had nothing left for the other 3. The idea is to leave the country better off at the end of your stint, not worse off. But the fact that you consider spending the country into the financial doggy doos as Labour's achievement is a pretty good indication of why the majority don't trust Labour with the economy. Remember "No more boom and bust?"

By the way. There were more people out of work when Labour left office in 2010 than there were when they took over in 1997. You can't get away from it. Labour are not trusted to run the economy.

Edited May 26, 2015 by anarchist

[L00b 441]

Did anyone see Harriet Harman on Andrew Marr on Sunday? Agreeing with and supporting the Tories on the EU referendum.

I did, but in fairness to her/Labour, she painted that as a case of political pragmatism, i.e. finally stopping to charge at windmills: the Referendum is going to happen regardless, so Labour may as well stop wasting their time opposing it, take it as a fait accompli and bat for the 'in' vote.

 

Not a change of tack which I would 'blame' Labour for, nor qualify as Labour 'agreeing' with the Tories about there being a need for a referendum.

[Alan Ladd 10]

THE Labour party and its owner the unions has outlived all usefulness. It has always had a damaging effect on this country and it is time it was consigned to the dustbin of history.

 

Apart from failing to address the genuine concerns of the nation it has, at this time, probably the weakest set of individual talent ever.

 

Barring unknowable events such as war or natural disaster the Tories look set to sort out the economy and Europe before 2020, they will change the boundaries in such a way as to ensure that Labour cant win in England, and hopefully get rid of Scotland altogether.

 

The future is bright, the future is blue.

[DrNorm 10]

The future is bright, the future is blue.

 

So long as the blues are appealing to sufficient numbers of blue collar workers my great fear is that you may be right.

 

The Tory party is not a natural place to be for those who depend on their labour, rather than their capital assets for an income.

 

I'd love to hear from those who are on the left of the Labour party. I'd love to hear the sound of reconciliation rather than recrimination. It will a very sad outcome if divisions and failure to build a broad consensus force natural allies to desert to other parties. I'll be among the last to go but the current state of affairs leaves me without a huge amount of hope of change for the better any time soon.

[Tommo68 10]

It would appear that most comedians want to have ago at any party except labour. Now if the comedians are backing labour do you really expect anyone else to?

 

To be honest I'm really starting to go off a lot of these comedians its mainly the ones that are just starting out they attack christianity but no other religion, slag off any party that's not labour and basically go for the cheap laughs from what they perceive to be the larger part of their audiences. Either maintainan a balance or leave religion and politucs alone.

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