Labour Graves Park leaflet

[geared 317]

Why can the cottage not be renovated and let out, with the proceeds being put back into the running of the park??

 

I'm guessing it won't be much in the grand scheme of things, but if money is tight then surely it would help?

[Blackbeard 10]

Why can the cottage not be renovated and let out, with the proceeds being put back into the running of the park??

 

I'm guessing it won't be much in the grand scheme of things, but if money is tight then surely it would help?

 

This has come up a few times and I believe plans were put on hold for the Friends to come up with ideas. “Caroline Dewar, chair of the Friends, said it has been estimated it would cost around £160,000 to fully repair. The Friends originally wanted to raise money to repair the cottage and rent it to somebody working for the parks department – but this idea was rejected, leading alternatives to be explored.

She said: “We wanted to discuss ideas but they wanted to see full business plans before they would be prepared to consider them. We can’t do a business plan for three to four ideas, it is a lot of work for a community group.”

November 2014

http://www.thestar.co.uk/what-s-on/out-about/sheffield-s-graves-park-cottage-set-to-be-sold-off-1-6954049

Sadly without a fully viable “Business Plan” I don’t think anyone would give the Friends the challenge, I suspect the council have learnt from other "community" projects which they have had to bail out.

This is part of what they finally came up with, the full proposal in in the link below.

“The Friends of Graves Park is proposing that the cottage is carefully taken down to approximately 1 metre in height with some variations retaining window and door positions on the rear elevation.”

to get both sides of the story I recommend that you read the Sheffield City Council Cabinet report by Executive Director of Place, Paul Billington on Cobnar Cottage dated March 18 2015. The Friends response is there, I have been unable to find it on their website.

http://sheffielddemocracy.moderngov.co.uk/documents/s17336/Cobnar%20Cottage.pdf

http://www.gravespark.org/

[Vegas1 10]

Heaven forbid I should ask a sensible question, but has anyone actually used the contact details on this leaflet to put their concerns and questions to the prospective Labour candidate?

[geared 317]

“Caroline Dewar, chair of the Friends, said it has been estimated it would cost around £160,000 to fully repair.

 

You could build the bloody thing for less than that, thats a ridiculous amount of money.

[barpen 10]

Why can the cottage not be renovated and let out, with the proceeds being put back into the running of the park??

 

I'm guessing it won't be much in the grand scheme of things, but if money is tight then surely it would help?

 

Just to be clear as Blackbeard is trying to derail this thread. The issue is nothing to do with cost. THE COTTAGE DOES NOT BELONG TO THE COUNCIL.

 

The land and buildings in Graves Park belong to the Graves Park Charity. The whole lot including Cobnar Cottage was given FREE to the people of Sheffield as parkland after the council agreed it would maintain the park and its buildings.

 

The reason the cottage needs money spending on it is because the council neglected it and failed to insure it. It is the councils duty to repair the damage that was caused whilst it was in their care.

 

Simply claiming money is tight does not change the law. The cottage still is not the councils to sell. They waste endless amounts of money trying to sell off chunks of Graves Park, and everytime the Charity Commission remind them that they can't do it.

 

The Charity Commission are now fully aware of the situation. They have asked the council to submit a scheme explaining their intentions. No doubt in a few months they will tell the council the land cannot be sold to provide funds for the council to use for its maintenance responsibilities. That is because the cottage belongs to the charity and not the council. It isn't rocket science.

 

---------- Post added 20-04-2015 at 20:43 ----------

 

Heaven forbid I should ask a sensible question, but has anyone actually used the contact details on this leaflet to put their concerns and questions to the prospective Labour candidate?

 

I have contacted the sitting Labour MP.

[Vegas1 10]

Surely you would have more joy contacting the sitting Labour councillors? I'm assuming this was literature to promote the local elections rather than the General (what constituency would it be? Sheffield Heeley?)

 

Good luck with it all, though. Graves Park is a lovely space and would be a shame to see areas sold off.

[Nemesis 10]

You could build the bloody thing for less than that, thats a ridiculous amount of money.

 

So anyone buying it would find it more cost effective to knock the cottage down and build a new home on the site.

 

Then the pavilion would go (nice site for a block of flats, 3 storeys high) then a nice little housing estate across that side of the park...

 

Truth is, if the Council ever manage to break the covenants, Graves Park could rapidly decrease in size before our very eyes.

 

Then again, as the Spartans said, "if"...

[Penistone999 10]

That would be really great. It is clear that the council cabinet are not fit to run the Graves Park Charity. I don't suppose The National Trust would stand for the council shipping in bags of dog crap, old fridges, and shopping trolleys from around the city and storing it in Graves Park if they were in charge.

 

Sheffield council arnt fit to run a bath , never mind a charity or this city

[barpen 10]

Surely you would have more joy contacting the sitting Labour councillors? I'm assuming this was literature to promote the local elections rather than the General (what constituency would it be? Sheffield Heeley?)

 

Good luck with it all, though. Graves Park is a lovely space and would be a shame to see areas sold off.

 

The Friends of Graves Park have been mentioning this and other attempted sell offs to the Labour councillors for the past 15 years. The trouble is they take no notice until the Charity Commission come around again and explain to them what being a trustee of a charity is supposed to involve.

 

Incidentally the leaflet appears to be a joint one for council and the Heeley Westminster seat.

 

---------- Post added 20-04-2015 at 23:55 ----------

 

So anyone buying it would find it more cost effective to knock the cottage down and build a new home on the site.

 

Then the pavilion would go (nice site for a block of flats, 3 storeys high) then a nice little housing estate across that side of the park...

 

Truth is, if the Council ever manage to break the covenants, Graves Park could rapidly decrease in size before our very eyes.

 

Then again, as the Spartans said, "if"...

 

The council wouldn't have needed to spend that money if they hadn't neglected the cottage in the first place.

[Blackbeard 10]

Morning barpen, Blackbeard trying to derail your thread, never, I am just putting it back on the tracks. I will tell you this, you never fail to surprise and amuse me, when I said that “whichever party leads the city it gets the "poisoned chalice" which is the Graves Park Trust.” You replied with what seemed very strange to me “Graves Park is hardly a poisoned chalice. From a freedom of information request the car park raised over £50,000 last year. There were concerts, shows and fairs where those using the park paid a fee. I have yet to establish how much rent comes from the cafe but assume it to be around £20,000/pa. There is also a £10,000 fee for using part of Norton Nursery as a depot.

It seems in return 0.7 people are employed to maintain the park. Perhaps if the accounts were audited we could find out where all this cash goes.”

 

You claim to know about charity law and you are even the holder of the magic ticket No 5286, I was totally surprised that you were not aware that every charity, even your very own Friends had to submit accounts, so why would a FoI request be needed? When I did give you the link to the accounts you said “Actually barpen knows the difference between a FoI request and a set of accounts. But it is good of you to confirm that car parking receipts for the year in Graves Park amounted to £53878. I have included that figure in the letter sent to the Charity Commission suggesting an audit of the charity's accounts as it appears that several of the trustees of the charity are unaware of the difference between the charity's assetts and those of the council.”

 

That totally stunned me; you were going to send a letter to the Charity Commission telling them about the accounts on their own website and asking them to commission an audit of them when the audit had been done not by the trustees but by Barber Harrison & Platt.

 

When I gave a list of dates when parties were in power and were trustees of the charity and asked who was to blame you came up with the classic answer when it could have happened under the LibDem watch “It is odd though that if the council employees remain the same why they fail to grasp the concept that Graves Park is not theirs to sell. They make this mistake over and over again despite the money they keep squandering in their repeated attempts to sell it. Why doesn't the elected council sack them? “

 

The original thread was started by you on the 28-07-2013 and in all that time you still have not got you facts right.

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1203456

 

Enough for now, I have a busy day ahead and watch out for the fairies at the bottom of your garden.

[Jon26 10]

Morning barpen, Blackbeard trying to derail your thread, never, I am just putting it back on the tracks. I will tell you this, you never fail to surprise and amuse me, when I said that “whichever party leads the city it gets the "poisoned chalice" which is the Graves Park Trust.” You replied with what seemed very strange to me “Graves Park is hardly a poisoned chalice. From a freedom of information request the car park raised over £50,000 last year. There were concerts, shows and fairs where those using the park paid a fee. I have yet to establish how much rent comes from the cafe but assume it to be around £20,000/pa. There is also a £10,000 fee for using part of Norton Nursery as a depot.

It seems in return 0.7 people are employed to maintain the park. Perhaps if the accounts were audited we could find out where all this cash goes.”

 

You claim to know about charity law and you are even the holder of the magic ticket No 5286, I was totally surprised that you were not aware that every charity, even your very own Friends had to submit accounts, so why would a FoI request be needed? When I did give you the link to the accounts you said “Actually barpen knows the difference between a FoI request and a set of accounts. But it is good of you to confirm that car parking receipts for the year in Graves Park amounted to £53878. I have included that figure in the letter sent to the Charity Commission suggesting an audit of the charity's accounts as it appears that several of the trustees of the charity are unaware of the difference between the charity's assetts and those of the council.”

 

That totally stunned me; you were going to send a letter to the Charity Commission telling them about the accounts on their own website and asking them to commission an audit of them when the audit had been done not by the trustees but by Barber Harrison & Platt.

 

When I gave a list of dates when parties were in power and were trustees of the charity and asked who was to blame you came up with the classic answer when it could have happened under the LibDem watch “It is odd though that if the council employees remain the same why they fail to grasp the concept that Graves Park is not theirs to sell. They make this mistake over and over again despite the money they keep squandering in their repeated attempts to sell it. Why doesn't the elected council sack them? “

 

The original thread was started by you on the 28-07-2013 and in all that time you still have not got you facts right.

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1203456

 

Enough for now, I have a busy day ahead and watch out for the fairies at the bottom of your garden.

 

I'm not an expert in charity law etc.. How would one go about changing the trustees of the graves park charity? To me it seems totally wrong that the trustees are all the local council, there ought to be a fairer representation from the general public who enjoy the park and want to be able to continue to do so.

[barpen 10]

Morning barpen, Blackbeard trying to derail your thread, never, I am just putting it back on the tracks. I will tell you this, you never fail to surprise and amuse me, when I said that “whichever party leads the city it gets the "poisoned chalice" which is the Graves Park Trust.” You replied with what seemed very strange to me “Graves Park is hardly a poisoned chalice. From a freedom of information request the car park raised over £50,000 last year. There were concerts, shows and fairs where those using the park paid a fee. I have yet to establish how much rent comes from the cafe but assume it to be around £20,000/pa. There is also a £10,000 fee for using part of Norton Nursery as a depot.

It seems in return 0.7 people are employed to maintain the park. Perhaps if the accounts were audited we could find out where all this cash goes.”

 

You claim to know about charity law and you are even the holder of the magic ticket No 5286, I was totally surprised that you were not aware that every charity, even your very own Friends had to submit accounts, so why would a FoI request be needed? When I did give you the link to the accounts you said “Actually barpen knows the difference between a FoI request and a set of accounts. But it is good of you to confirm that car parking receipts for the year in Graves Park amounted to £53878. I have included that figure in the letter sent to the Charity Commission suggesting an audit of the charity's accounts as it appears that several of the trustees of the charity are unaware of the difference between the charity's assetts and those of the council.”

 

That totally stunned me; you were going to send a letter to the Charity Commission telling them about the accounts on their own website and asking them to commission an audit of them when the audit had been done not by the trustees but by Barber Harrison & Platt.

 

When I gave a list of dates when parties were in power and were trustees of the charity and asked who was to blame you came up with the classic answer when it could have happened under the LibDem watch “It is odd though that if the council employees remain the same why they fail to grasp the concept that Graves Park is not theirs to sell. They make this mistake over and over again despite the money they keep squandering in their repeated attempts to sell it. Why doesn't the elected council sack them? “

 

The original thread was started by you on the 28-07-2013 and in all that time you still have not got you facts right.

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1203456

 

Enough for now, I have a busy day ahead and watch out for the fairies at the bottom of your garden.

 

 

I've certainly got my facts right. I know who is trying to sell property that they don't own, and it is only one party that is trying to sell it. You probably missed the fact that audited accounts are only as good as the information given to the auditors, which is why I have passed on my concerns to those in a position do do an audit.

We have been here before several times in the last 15 years and I have yet to have been on the side not backed by the Charity Commissions verdict.

Edited April 21, 2015 by barpen