Super tram extensions

[hicksy3 10]

I initially thought trolleybuses might be a more pragmatic idea. Then, I remembered the fourth power law

 

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0307904X01000798

 

A trolley bus (or conventional bus) using the same road as everything else is going to wear out the surface 10,000 times faster than a car, assuming it weighs ten times as much.

 

A tram system with sections off street is thus a better option as it isn't wearing out a shared road as fast as a bus or trolleybus. When on street, it's on properly mounted rails, designed to carry a heavy vehicle and last twenty years.

 

Look at the deep rutting around Castle Square and along Arundel Gate for an example of heavy wear on a road, most likely caused by conventional buses.

[Jeffrey Shaw 90]

I initially thought trolleybuses might be a more pragmatic idea. Then, I remembered the fourth power law

 

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0307904X01000798

 

A trolley bus (or conventional bus) using the same road as everything else is going to wear out the surface 10,000 times faster than a car, assuming it weighs ten times as much.

 

A tram system with sections off street is thus a better option as it isn't wearing out a shared road as fast as a bus or trolleybus. When on street, it's on properly mounted rails, designed to carry a heavy vehicle and last twenty years.

But they don't.

 

Look at the deep rutting around Castle Square and along Arundel Gate for an example of heavy wear on a road, most likely caused by conventional buses.

If you see buses deep-rutting, just throw a bucket of cold water over 'em.

[Ghozer 112]

From 2017, Supertram are scheduled to begin operations of the new tram-train line from Cathedral to Rotherham Parkgate, using a fleet of seven brand new Vossloh Espana-built Class 399 Citylink articulated electric multiple units. The Class 399s are expected to be painted into normal Supertram livery. The existing Siemens-Duewag Supertram fleet will not be upgraded for tram-train operation, so have not been registered under TOPS and cannot be used on the line as they lack the relevant Network Rail safety systems.

 

The Class 399 units were constructed between 2014 and 2015 and are expected to be delivered to Supertram by the end of 2015. Until the completion of the tram-train line, they will be used to provide increased capacity on the existing Supertram network.

[hicksy3 10]

But they don't.

 

 

If you see buses deep-rutting, just throw a bucket of cold water over 'em.

 

When did the tramlines first go in? 1994-95 according to Wikipedia. They lasted at least 19 years, first replacements were 2013 weren't they?

 

12 inch deep undulations are no laughing matter, if you find the term 'rut' so amusing!

[Guest busdriver1]

When did the tramlines first go in? 1994-95 according to Wikipedia. They lasted at least 19 years, first replacements were 2013 weren't they?

 

12 inch deep undulations are no laughing matter, if you find the term 'rut' so amusing!

 

There have been minor replacements ongoing at regular intervals since about 1998. \the recent scheme is for major replacements all in one go instead of piecemeal as in the past. There is no way tram rails could possibly last that long even on the lightly used parts of the system.

[dutch 68]

From 2017, Supertram are scheduled to begin operations of the new tram-train line from Cathedral to Rotherham Parkgate, using a fleet of seven brand new Vossloh Espana-built Class 399 Citylink articulated electric multiple units. The Class 399s are expected to be painted into normal Supertram livery. The existing Siemens-Duewag Supertram fleet will not be upgraded for tram-train operation, so have not been registered under TOPS and cannot be used on the line as they lack the relevant Network Rail safety systems.

 

The Class 399 units were constructed between 2014 and 2015 and are expected to be delivered to Supertram by the end of 2015. Until the completion of the tram-train line, they will be used to provide increased capacity on the existing Supertram network.

 

The tracks between Sheffield and Rotherham have no domestic areas near it. I assume this service will be from Rotherham central to meadowhall to Sheffield cathedral.

In Rotherham central there are usually only two people waiting for the train to meadowhall or Sheffield 78x busses are actually not bad at all and come closer to the locations where the demand is.

[Andy C 85]

The tracks between Sheffield and Rotherham have no domestic areas near it. I assume this service will be from Rotherham central to meadowhall to Sheffield cathedral.

In Rotherham central there are usually only two people waiting for the train to meadowhall or Sheffield 78x busses are actually not bad at all and come closer to the locations where the demand is.

 

The tram train will follow the current yellow tram route from Cathedral to Meadowhall South/Tinsley (via Nunnery Square Park & Ride, Attercliffe, Arena and Valley Centertainment) then run fast to Rotherham Central station and on to a terminus at Parkgate retail world.

[hicksy3 10]

There have been minor replacements ongoing at regular intervals since about 1998. \the recent scheme is for major replacements all in one go instead of piecemeal as in the past. There is no way tram rails could possibly last that long even on the lightly used parts of the system.

 

I'm not an engineer, but I was pretty sure most rail (light and heavy) had a service life of ~20 years. The following quotes from the supertram website back this up:

 

“When the tram system was installed in 1994, it was widely expected at the time that the rail would have a 30-year lifespan. However, over the past two years, it has become clear that this replacement work needs to be carried out sooner rather than later to ensure the people of Sheffield, and the wider region, have a robust and reliable tram network in the future.”

 

And

 

"Once the replacement work is complete, it is thought that the new rails – made from harder wearing steel - will have a life-expectancy of 25-30 years"

 

We shall wait and see....

 

In the meantime, if we absolutely have to use buses or trolleybuses instead, couldn't they be made much lighter to avoid them damaging the roads so much? In terms of reducing congestion with only minor infrastructure investment, buses will work if people use them. But in terms of damage to roads, increasing bus numbers or introducing trolleybuses instead of more expensive trams would be a nightmare (in theory)!

[TheRightWay 10]

And yet just over 30 miles away in Manchester they seem to have no trouble getting the Metro link system extended. The money and the political will seems not to be a problem.

Yes came back from there last week,use it regular during the Football season, there tram system and been extending with minimal fuss except the expected problems around Victoria rail st , they have no conductors but squads of fare evading inspectors and enjoying using there tram system and used Nottingham who are expanding especially past the QMC Hosiptal , do our trams touch the hospitals , not really , was badly planned in the 1st place, no loop system in place either why I call it a bit of white elephant , still can not believe the Wisewood/Stannington lot turned down the tram going up 2 there's from Malin Bridge when it was constructed , and who wants to go Rotherham ??? that money should of been used to connect NG up to the Tram System .

[Guest busdriver1]

I'm not an engineer, but I was pretty sure most rail (light and heavy) had a service life of ~20 years. The following quotes from the supertram website back this up:

 

“When the tram system was installed in 1994, it was widely expected at the time that the rail would have a 30-year lifespan. However, over the past two years, it has become clear that this replacement work needs to be carried out sooner rather than later to ensure the people of Sheffield, and the wider region, have a robust and reliable tram network in the future.”

 

And

 

"Once the replacement work is complete, it is thought that the new rails – made from harder wearing steel - will have a life-expectancy of 25-30 years"

 

We shall wait and see....

 

In the meantime, if we absolutely have to use buses or trolleybuses instead, couldn't they be made much lighter to avoid them damaging the roads so much? In terms of reducing congestion with only minor infrastructure investment, buses will work if people use them. But in terms of damage to roads, increasing bus numbers or introducing trolleybuses instead of more expensive trams would be a nightmare (in theory)!

 

Straight sections MAY have a long life, bends and intersections will have a short life. Remember what happened at Hatfield when they tried to prolong the life of rails on a bend. That track was only about 5 years old.

 

---------- Post added 09-05-2015 at 02:41 ----------

 

Yes came back from there last week,use it regular during the Football season, there tram system and been extending with minimal fuss except the expected problems around Victoria rail st , they have no conductors but squads of fare evading inspectors and enjoying using there tram system and used Nottingham who are expanding especially past the QMC Hosiptal , do our trams touch the hospitals , not really , was badly planned in the 1st place, no loop system in place either why I call it a bit of white elephant , still can not believe the Wisewood/Stannington lot turned down the tram going up 2 there's from Malin Bridge when it was constructed , and who wants to go Rotherham ??? that money should of been used to connect NG up to the Tram System .

 

To be honest, the people of Rotherham don't want the tram. We have seen the man made chaos it causes in Sheffield and can quite happily manage without that.

The gross mismanagement of the system from the start has to be a major factor in the decision to turn down every extension plan point blank.

The fact that massive amounts of money were written off (transferred to the taxpayer) and the backdoor subsidies given to the operator indicate the system is flawed.

[dutch 68]

I also question the demand for the Rotherham extension but maybe that could change once it is in place.

There are many other places in Sheffield that have a much higher need for this investment.

[Planner1 428]

I also question the demand for the Rotherham extension but maybe that could change once it is in place.

There are many other places in Sheffield that have a much higher need for this investment.

The Rotherham extension is nothing to do with demand.

 

It is a trial to try out the tram-train vehicles on heavy rail track and tram track and assess how they perform.