School trips and cost

[aliceBB 10]

its a great shame. fetes and jumble sales were part of life during my childhood. I seem to remember my children having fetes and open days etc, but its a while ago!

 

I remember, along with the other 'neat handwriters' in my class, having to stay in at playtime and write out by hand 25 invitations to every school jumble sale, fete, etc. We weren't best pleased. It seemed like a punishment for being good.

 

The invention of duplicating machines had by-passed my Infants School, I suspect.

[Localman 10]

Things have changed.

Academies do not have the same rules.

 

A School Governor writes:

 

I've only just seen this thread, but it is disappointing how many people have substituted their own views for what the law requires.

 

As mentioned in an earlier post, the definitive guidance is contained in:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/365929/charging_for_school_activities_-_October_2014.pdf

 

Academies ARE required to follow the same rules. As you will note in FAQs, it states:

Q. How does this relate to academies?

A. Academies (including free schools, studio schools and university technical colleges) are required through their funding agreements to comply with the law on charging for school activities.

 

Every school is also required to set out its charging policy (within the guidance) and publish it. This should also include advice on any subsidies available and to whom they apply.

 

I find it very difficult to believe that a school could justify £55 for one night's board and lodging on a trip which forms part of the curriculum.

[aliceBB 10]

I find it very difficult to believe that a school could justify £55 for one night's board and lodging on a trip which forms part of the curriculum.

 

Thank you for the information on academies, which was useful, but you seem to be suggesting that OP's school is making a profit out of the pupils for this trip, which I think is highly inappropriate of you.

 

As already established, a field trip involving two days' specialised field study and one night away will involve coach travel, accommodation, food, use of centre facilities (e.g. booking their study space as a base for a day) specialised tuition/instruction by centre staff and insurance. Not sure where you think you could get all that for less than £55 per pupil. Bed, breakfast and evening meal alone will cost approximately half of that in most outdoor/fieldwork education centres, and hiring a 50 seater coach for the two return trips could easily make up the rest.

 

If you can provide a much lower budget for a similar visit, let's see it.

[dnairn8417 10]

10 minutes by what form of transport? Unless it's on foot, a minibus or coach will need to be hired and that will still be expensive.

 

Plus the farm will charge per child for the day's activities, and insurance. I can see that the cost could easily reach £12.50.

 

I'm aware of how much things cost, thanks.

[aliceBB 10]

I'm aware of how much things cost, thanks.

 

Glad to hear it. So why do you imply that £12.50 is excessive for the trip concerned:

 

My daughter's infant school asked for a contribution of £12.50 for a day trip to a farm. The farm is 10 minutes away.

 

...?

[Localman 10]

Thank you for the information on academies, which was useful, but you seem to be suggesting that OP's school is making a profit out of the pupils for this trip, which I think is highly inappropriate of you.

 

As already established, a field trip involving two days' specialised field study and one night away will involve coach travel, accommodation, food, use of centre facilities (e.g. booking their study space as a base for a day) specialised tuition/instruction by centre staff and insurance. Not sure where you think you could get all that for less than £55 per pupil. Bed, breakfast and evening meal alone will cost approximately half of that in most outdoor/fieldwork education centres, and hiring a 50 seater coach for the two return trips could easily make up the rest.

 

If you can provide a much lower budget for a similar visit, let's see it.

 

That may all be correct, but I think you keep muddling up how much things cost and what the school is allowed/not allowed to charge for in respect of visits that (a) take part in normal school time and (b) form part of the curriculum.

 

The elements for which a school is allowed to charge and those for which it is ultra vires to charge are set out in the guidance. Please read it carefully.

 

Schools cannot cross-subsidise from those elements for which it can charge to those for which it cannot.

 

The school can meet costs for which it cannot charge from the general schools' budget or from other funds. [For example, at one school were I am a governor, the parents organise occasional 'Fun Days' (after school games, jumble sales, cake stalls etc) and the income raised is used to subsidise school trips.]

 

If parents feel that the cost of a trip is excessive - particularly if it is described as an important part of the curriculum - they should politely ask the teacher or Head to confirm that the proposed charges are in accordance with the statutory regulations and guidance.

[aliceBB 10]

That may all be correct, but I think you keep muddling up how much things cost and what the school is allowed/not allowed to charge for in respect of visits that (a) take part in normal school time and (b) form part of the curriculum.

 

 

You are, I am sure, far more up to date on the statutory details than I am, and I should like to make it clear than if I were Prime Minister, all educational visits would be free for the pupils anyway.

 

However, my breakdown of costs was a response to your comment that schools would find it hard to justify a cost of £55 for a field trip. I now understand where you are coming from, but your comment was misleading in the context.

 

What are state schools to do, though? Cancel such visits and disadvantage their students compared with those in private establishments where parents' pockets are deeper? I suppose there is an argument that the government should be requiring exam boards to provide syllabuses where the qualification can be obtained without additional expense for parents, but fieldwork is surely one of the things which makes some courses more interesting and meaningful.

 

Do you have a view on that?

Edited March 4, 2015 by aliceBB

[slope 10]

You are, I am sure, far more up to date on the statutory details than I am, and I should like to make it clear than if I were Prime Minister, all educational visits would be free for the pupils anyway.

 

However, my breakdown of costs was a response to your comment that schools would find it hard to justify a cost of £55 for a field trip. I now understand where you are coming from, but your comment was misleading in the context.

 

What are state schools to do, though? Cancel such visits and disadvantage their students compared with those in private establishments where parents' pockets are deeper? I suppose there is an argument that the government should be requiring exam boards to provide syllabuses where the qualification can be obtained without additional expense for parents, but fieldwork is surely one of the things which makes some courses more interesting and meaningful.

 

Do you have a view on that?

 

Well said. it must be one of the most important parts of education, to give our kids every opportunity possible, and the cost of this must be met by the taxpayer. The issue of affordability is also important, as a lot of families cannot afford what looks like a luxury, but would in fact be a genuinely integral part of a childs education.

[dnairn8417 10]

Glad to hear it. So why do you imply that £12.50 is excessive for the trip concerned:

 

 

 

...?

 

To me it's a lot of money for a day trip down the road, other parents in the school happens to agree, I don't care for your patronising tone.

[aliceBB 10]

To me it's a lot of money for a day trip down the road, other parents in the school happens to agree, I don't care for your patronising tone.

 

There was no intention to patronise, although you still don't seem to get the point (about the distance from school not being the crucial factor in the cost).

 

FWIW I find your implication that your child's school has organised an activity which is poor value for money (when actually, it sounds pretty good value), rather objectionable. It sounds like a valuable and enjoyable trip for the children and I feel for their teachers, having to contend with attitudes like yours. If you feel that you can offer your child the same quality of experience yourself for less than £12.50, then why not just politely decline the opportunity of the visit, let your child stay in school for the day with all the others whose parents don't think it's worth it, and stop whingeing about it?

Edited March 4, 2015 by aliceBB

[dnairn8417 10]

There was no intention to patronise, although you still don't seem to get the point (about the distance from school not being the crucial factor in the cost).

 

FWIW I find your implication that your child's school has organised an activity which is poor value for money (when actually, it sounds pretty good value), rather objectionable. It sounds like a valuable and enjoyable trip for the children and I feel for their teachers, having to contend with attitudes like yours. If you feel that you can offer your child the same quality of experience yourself for less than £12.50, then why not just politely decline the opportunity of the visit, let your child stay in school for the day with all the others whose parents don't think it's worth it, and stop whingeing about it?

 

Actually I find your patronising manner very objectionable. You don't seem to get the point that for my family £12.50 is a lot of money, and this being one of many trips and activities we are asked to pay for,. It all adds up when you have a few kids. Anyway I like to come on the forum to whinge about things, I don't need people like you telling me what I should or shouldn't do, "why not just politely decline" etc etc, now please take your lectures elsewhere.

[aliceBB 10]

You don't seem to get the point that for my family £12.50 is a lot of money,

I do not dispute that for a moment, but it is a separate issue from whether the trip in question is poor value or not.

 

and this being one of many trips and activities we are asked to pay for,. It all adds up when you have a few kids.

Obviously, it will do, but you chose to have those children and you make it sound as though you resent your child being offered the chance to participate in enrichment activities. If your children's teachers could see your comments, I bet they'd feel like not bothering to organise any more trips at all, given that their efforts are so unappreciated.

 

Anyway I like to come on the forum to whinge about things,

..................

 

I don't need people like you telling me what I should or shouldn't do, "why not just politely decline" etc etc,

I disagree. I think you need telling!

 

now please take your lectures elsewhere

No, I'll do what I want, thank you.