Paris shooting. 17 dead

[Ellco 10]

So he is the Nazi that has been warning about islamic extremists? That is quite accurate, I have news for you though, he didn't have to, 9/1 made pretty clear that there were islamic terrorists, don't you think?

 

He's not a Nazi. Watch his talk at the Oxford Union...

[Halibut 12]

They're just meaningless words. The people who will achieve peace will be the armed forces. While those who caused it all waffle on.

 

And there in bold, is your biggest error in thinking.

 

Peace cannot be achieved through violence. It comes from equality, justice and education.

[anfisa 10]

And there in bold, is your biggest error in thinking.

 

Peace cannot be achieved through violence. It comes from equality, justice and education.

 

Yes it can, we achieved peace by fighting the Nazis, I do no think they wanted equality, justice and education.

[Zamo 10]

Maybe so. But being a Muslim doesn't mean you believe in martyrdom. I'm an Atheist, but I haven't got a clue about the scientific beliefs about the universe and it's creation.

 

You're a member of the same club that takes far right beliefs to the extreme. I wouldn't refer to you as "the racists", and I don't think you would appreciate me doing so either.

 

I don't suppose being Muslim means you automatically believe in martyrdom but it would be interesting to hear from Muslims on that subject.

 

What club do you think I'm a member of? I am a member of no club. If you refer to me currently supporting UKIP as a means to an end (vote on exit from Europe and tighter immigration controls) then that is true... although I am not a member of the party. That said, I don't believe a single attack has been carried out in te name of UKIP has it? And I would dispute that UKIP are taking far right beliefs to the extreme... that is frankly ridiculous. I am happy to maintain my tentative association with UKIP for now and to take whatever criticism people want to level at me for that choice. If UKIP supporters start attacking people because of UKIP policies then I would dis-associate myself from them. It is all about choices and we judge people on their choices.

 

Interesting that you compare me saying all Muslims are responsible for doing something about the extremist problem to me being called racist. I don't see any comparison. What label have I pinned on Muslims? I have simply said that as members of a club their association means they have some responsibility for the actions of fellow members. The reputation of the club reflects on them just as it would the member of any club. If people who are members of the Muslim club want more respect then they need to do something to stop fellow members hurting non-members or they should leave the club... as I would dis-associate myself from UKIP if members were attacking people because of UKIP policies or their interpretation of their policies. It is all about choice.

 

How often do you want me to repeat myself? Just have a look at what I wrote countless times before.

 

You are asking me to read between lines to find an answer. I can't find it so I'm asking you to spell it out for me so we can be clear. Why do you think it is unfair to criticism the Muslim club and it's members for the actions of a minority when it is fair game for any other club, political party or organisation (examples being the Met Police who have been labelled institutionally racist and football clubs who have fined or banned for the violence of a few)?

[ricgem2002 11]

And there in bold, is your biggest error in thinking.

 

Peace cannot be achieved through violence. It comes from equality, justice and education.

 

is that what ended ww2:roll:

[Manchild 10]

 

Mine is achieving peace and ending violence.

 

Thats a good agenda. How do you propose to do it?

 

---------- Post added 11-01-2015 at 09:37 ----------

 

What? Nazi's like Tommy Robinson who for years fuelled the debate on segregation and dismissing human rights?

 

Hate him or just dislike him you cant deny he was right on the button. YOU are wrong in almost everything you say.

 

---------- Post added 11-01-2015 at 09:38 ----------

 

is that what ended ww2:roll:

 

In fairness the end of ww2 didnt see peace or anything even remotely like it. Just smaller more spread out wars.

[LeMaquis 10]

is that what ended ww2:roll:

 

There isn't a world war going on though, is there? You can hardly compare acts of terrorism to a world war.

[ricgem2002 11]

Thats a good agenda. How do you propose to do it?

 

---------- Post added 11-01-2015 at 09:37 ----------

 

 

Hate him or just dislike him you cant deny he was right on the button. YOU are wrong in almost everything you say.

 

---------- Post added 11-01-2015 at 09:38 ----------

 

 

In fairness the end of ww2 didnt see peace or anything even remotely like it. Just smaller more spread out wars.

it saw the end of Germany bombing us and vice versa:roll:

[milquetoast1 10]

Do you think Christians in the UK should be apologising for the actions of Anders Brevik?

 

To be fair Zammo is not asking for Muslims to apologise, he's asking for "collective criticism". It's an important distinction. Demanding that Muslims should apologise is an offensive concept, and I don't think that's what Zammo has argued for.

 

Here's some comments from Mehrdad Amanpour:

 

Another day, another outrage carried out by evil & deranged individuals and the usual arguments ensue.

 

“It had everything/nothing to do with Islam”.

 

“Muslims should/should not apologise”.

 

The murders in Paris certainly have nothing to do with the Islam I recognise, nor the Islam followed by the overwhelming majority of Muslims. But clearly they were motivated by a brutal and amoral interpretation of Islam that was believed by the perpetrators. To say otherwise is delusional.

 

But let’s be in no doubt that the number of Muslims who support killing cartoonists is tiny. That said, the proportion of British Muslims who believe depicting the Prophet ought to be a crime is alarmingly high:

 

Take note of that last line "the proportion of British Muslims who believe depicting the Prophet ought to be a crime is alarmingly high"

 

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/291

 

"Asked about attitudes towards free speech, there was little support for freedom of speech if it would offend religious sensibilities. 78% of Muslims thought that the publishers of the Danish cartoons of the Prophet Muhammed should be prosecuted, 68% thought those who insulted Islam should be prosecuted and 62% of people disagree that freedom of speech should be allowed even if it insults and offends religious groups.

 

9% of respondents said it was acceptable for religious or political groups to use violence"

 

My family fled to the UK because of these attitudes. If we are to rub along together peacefully in a healthy multicultural society these attitudes need to change. Unfortunately, the comments made here by bounce show little desire to accept that these attitudes are wrong, never mind change them.

[LeMaquis 10]

Hate him or just dislike him you cant deny he was right on the button.

 

Right on the button? All he did was organise a lot of demos that ended in a lot of violence and a lot of EDL members going to prison. He then walked away from all that as he could no longer control it.

[ricgem2002 11]

There isn't a world war going on though, is there? You can hardly compare acts of terrorism to a world war.

where you been for the last 10 years theres a war on terrorists going off around the world.

[LeMaquis 10]

where you been for the last 10 years theres a war on terrorists going off around the world.

 

Nothing has happened in the last 10 years, or even since 1945, that compares to World War 2. If you're not aware of that you should get yourself a reality check.