Paris shooting. 17 dead

[Ryedo40 10]

The Germans bombed Britain many decades ago and people have moved on. Western nations are bombing and occupying Muslim countries right up to the present day. Muslim nations are not bombing and occupying any western nations. The blind support for Israel is also a major reason why the west is mistrusted in the Middle East.

 

In the West though mate, people are free to condemn the actions of their governments and religious leaders - including the bombing of civilians(Muslim or not); just as you are doing now. In Islamic nations it's a different story: condemn the actions of their religious leaders, including their theocratic governments, and their laws, and get executed or imprisoned for blasphemy or insulting the religious sentiments of the nation. And maybe that is part of the reason why many in the West don't trust Muslims - some of whom are intent on spreading Islam throughout the West.

[Bounce 10]

Not being funny mate, but look what's going on: Islamists call for the flogging or beheading of those who "insult" Islam - and that doesn't just apply to non-believers, but those who follow Islam. Who decides what is insulting and what isn't? Is someone, a Muslim, writing a blog calling on his country to respect freedom of religion, belief, and expression, and women's rights an insult to Islam? Islamists seem to think so - that's why they've given Raif Badawi a 10-year prison sentence with 1000 lashes(receiving the first 50 yesterday - and 50 every week.) Is satiring Islamists and their leaders responsible for that barbarity an insult to Islam? They seem to think so.

 

Why do you think ISIS and the Taliban have gotten to where they are today and how do you think they've managed to recruit as many people as they have? If western nations stopped bombing, invading, occupying and propping up puppet regimes in the Muslim world the extremist fringe would not be able to recruit people or get a foot hold. If Muslim nations came bombing and invading western nations disbanded the police and armies and put some stooge dictators in power what do you think would happen? The more extreme the situation the more extreme the nut jobs. The extremism in the west would be different because Islam came 600 years after Christianity. The extremists gaining a foot hold in the western world would be more of the far right persuasion. They already have gained a foot hold but things don't get out of control because the imperialist nations maintain law and order in their own countries while burning down other peoples.

 

 

Muslims Protest

 

Whats the difference between this and this?

 

 

The second link of far right extremists is even worse than the picture of these Muslim extremists with the placards. However I don't see much criticism from people like you against the behavior of far right extremists.

 

---------- Post added 11-01-2015 at 01:38 ----------

 

In the West though mate, people are free to condemn the actions of their governments and religious leaders - including the bombing of civilians(Muslim or not); just as you are doing now. In Islamic nations it's a different story: condemn the actions of their religious leaders, including their theocratic governments, and their laws, and get executed or imprisoned for blasphemy or insulting the religious sentiments of the nation. And maybe that is part of the reason why many in the West don't trust Muslims - some of whom are intent on spreading Islam throughout the West.

 

On the contrary mate. For example in Pakistan which is considered a religiously conservative country most people hate the Taliban and they are regularly criticized in the countries mainstream media. The Pakistani government is constantly criticized on ARY news which is the countries most popular News channel. I urge you to watch it one day and see how the government is constantly under media attack. I'm not saying there aren't problems but people in western nations have a very stereotypical view of Muslim countries which does not match with the reality on the ground. The sensationalist media is largely to blame for this and its only when people actually go and spend time in those countries that they realise most Muslims are friendly and welcoming people. Some people in the west define Muslim countries by their incidents of extremism rather than by their societies.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Bounce

[tinfoilhat 11]

There you go again blaming Islam when western Imperialism is the real culprit.

 

Britain and France divided up the region which is modern day Iraq and Syria with the Sykes Picot agreement.

 

The French put the Alawite minority in power which has been oppressing the Sunnis leading to the rise of ISIS.

 

The British created Israel and Saudi Arabia.

 

The Americans brought Sunni dictator Saddam Hussain to power and backed him in the Iran Iraq war. The Shias and Kurds were marginalised during his reign,

 

In 2003 they removed Saddam and installed a Shia dictator in his place. Ever since Sunnis have been marginalised leading to the rise ISIS.

 

NATO bombing raids facilitated the removal of Gadafi from Libya leaving tribal militias in charge of the country.

 

The CIA armed and backed the Taliban to fight the Russians in Afghanistan. The Taliban grew in power as a result and were able to take control of the country.

 

America NATO went into Afghanistan to remove the Taliban stayed for 13 years killed many civilians and pushed the Taliban into neighbouring Pakistan destabilisng the entire country.

 

Any of that justification to shoot up 17 people?

[mafya 248]

Any of that justification to shoot up 17 people?

 

Who said it was?

 

---------- Post added 11-01-2015 at 05:33 ----------

 

Any of that justification to shoot up 17 people?

 

Is there any justification for what happened to this woman in response to these attacks? = http://www.todayszaman.com/latest-news_pregnant-muslim-woman-attacked-in-paris-loses-baby_318574.html

[Harleyman 12]

Charlie Hebdo had previously cartooned and made fun of Pope Francis but I don't remember seeing any Catholics going on the rampage afterwards

[tinfoilhat 11]

Who said it was?

 

---------- Post added 11-01-2015 at 05:33 ----------

 

 

Is there any justification for what happened to this woman in response to these attacks? = http://www.todayszaman.com/latest-news_pregnant-muslim-woman-attacked-in-paris-loses-baby_318574.html

 

Bounce seemed to be leaning that way which is a bit wrong.They were, to best of my knowledge, brought up in France - they haven't just got off a boat from Libya or Syria or some other war zone. They were, after a bit of digging, quite keen on getting others to fight the good fight in Iraq in gulf war 2. Reading up on it, these were bad people. What they were doing on the streets with their track record is a mystery to me and I suspect those with similar records will be under very very close scrutiny.

 

You can't use westen imperialism as a reason to shoot up a magazine. It doesn't matter what bush did, the cia did or what drone attacks what Taliban in a Pakistani village. It's completely irelivent. If it was relevant more people would do it or try, or try and protest against governments - particularly the french, they love a good protest. You can't use the wronging of another Muslim thousands of miles away as a reason to violently attack the country of their birth (again to the best of my knowledge!). And then, blatantly ignore the countless suicide attacks on other muslims - where's the outrage there? Oh yeah, the likes of bounce will Palm that off on the west too.

 

EDIT : as for the link, no there is no justification. It could have been 10 magazines shot up there is no reason to single out a pregnant woman for a kicking. Ever.

Edited January 11, 2015 by tinfoilhat

[blake 10]

I'm sorry but this bloke is just an ignorant plonker.

 

There you go again blaming Islam when western Imperialism is the real culprit.

 

this is the blame-the-west-for everything narrative beloved of the Islamists just like it was beloved of the Marxists before them, and still is beloved of the leftist apologists for Islamist terrorists and these kind of outrages today.

 

of course, it is all nonsense. Like all this, is nonsense :

 

The French put the Alawite minority in power.

 

total garbage. The rise of the Alawites in Syria from being the perennial underclass of Syria to top dogs in the later 20th century and especially in the 1960s is a fascinating subject involving a lot of scholarly debate. Whole books have been written about it. But one thing is for sure and on which everyone is agreed. The former French colonisers, had nothing at all to do with it. Unfortunately, that doesn't fit in with Bounce's Islamist/Marxist blame-the-west-for-everything model.

 

The British created Israel .

 

more garbage. Only a total ignoramus, could write that. Israel created itself. If Bounce knew anything at all about the history, which he doesn't, then he would know that the only British military personnel that were involved in the 1948 war of independence fought on the Arab side as commanding officers of the Royal Jordanian Legion, who were probably the best performing, and the most effective enemies of the Israelis in the 1948 war, of all the Arab units.

 

The Americans brought Sunni dictator Saddam Hussain to power and backed him in the Iran Iraq war.

 

the garbage continues. The Americans, like the French and the Alawites in Syria, had nothing at all to do with Saddam's rise to power and did not have a single human being in Iraq at the time their having ceased diplomatic relations with Iraq in 1967. This continued until 1983, when frightened that Saddam might lose the iran-Iraq war he started, the USA restored diplomatic relations again after 16 years and hurriedly threw their weight behind Iraq, not for Iraq to win, but so Iran would not. In the words of Henry Kissinger, the attitude of the USA together with the other western countries, was not to support Iraq but to ' hope they both lose'.

 

The CIA armed and backed the Taliban to fight the Russians in Afghanistan. .

 

just when you thought that the sheer amount of garbage in one post was approaching record levels, Bounce comes out with even more. The CIA backed the Mujaheddin against the Soviets, not the Taliban, who did not even exist until 1994. Bounce shows himself here to be guilty of the very same sin he accuses others of - namely that any Muslim with a beard and a Kalashnikov or a rocket lanucher is Taliban or a terrorist instead of the undoubted heroes many of the Mujahuddin were. In reality the Mujaheddin of the 1980s and the Taliban of the 1990s, were totally different things.

[Manchild 10]

Now Hamburg is on the list of places touched by this vileness

[boyfriday 21]

They're either with us or against us. It wouldn't be difficult and then we would combat the problem together.

 

There is no 'us', there is only mankind and until we accept collectively that we're all part of the problem and responsible for the solution there will be no hope for 'us'.

[Mecky 10]

Anyone noticed the increased level of promuslim stories in the media resulting from all this? They seem to be acting like tories and immediately trying to bury bad news whith something they consider to be good which is very tenuous to say the least

[anfisa 10]

Yes all I read from you is Muslims this, Quran that, Islam the other and all sweeping statements with no evidence to support your claims.

 

That's because we have to stay on topic and this topic is about Muslims killing people, if you want to read things that are not about Muslims go to a topic that is not about Muslims.

 

 

Not once have you mentioned the Muslim police officer Ahmed who died defending Charlie Hebdo even though they mocked his religion. Not once have you mentioned the Muslim Lassana Bathily who worked in the Jewish supermarket and shepherded customers to safety.

 

Will talking about this Muslim police officer negate the fact that Muslims killed him senselessly, he was just as much a victim of an extreme ideology as all the other muslims round the world that are victims of it.

 

---------- Post added 11-01-2015 at 08:17 ----------

 

There you go again blaming Islam when western Imperialism is the real culprit.

 

Britain and France divided up the region which is modern day Iraq and Syria with the Sykes Picot agreement.

 

The French put the Alawite minority in power which has been oppressing the Sunnis leading to the rise of ISIS.

 

The British created Israel and Saudi Arabia.

 

The Americans brought Sunni dictator Saddam Hussain to power and backed him in the Iran Iraq war. The Shias and Kurds were marginalised during his reign,

 

In 2003 they removed Saddam and installed a Shia dictator in his place. Ever since Sunnis have been marginalised leading to the rise ISIS.

 

NATO bombing raids facilitated the removal of Gadafi from Libya leaving tribal militias in charge of the country.

 

The CIA armed and backed the Taliban to fight the Russians in Afghanistan. The Taliban grew in power as a result and were able to take control of the country.

 

America NATO went into Afghanistan to remove the Taliban stayed for 13 years killed many civilians and pushed the Taliban into neighbouring Pakistan destabilisng the entire country.

 

You really need to get over this obsession that the west is to blame for everything wrong with Islam. Islam was not the creation of the west it was the creation of Mohammad and he murdered far more people than any modern day Muslims as killed.

 

---------- Post added 11-01-2015 at 08:23 ----------

 

 

People who blame Islam and Muslims are fueling the fire of hate which gives rise to more extremism.

 

Nonsense, what fuels the fire is Muslims using Islam to justify murder and the book of hate that they follow.

 

---------- Post added 11-01-2015 at 08:29 ----------

 

What about the Muslim employee in the Jewish Supermarket saving lives or the Muslim police officer laying down his life to defend a publication which mocked his religion.

 

Both examples that not all Muslims are the same, but it still does not negate the indisputable fact that Islam was the justification used by the murderous Muslims to kill people.

 

If a Muslim, Christian, Jew, killed someone during a pub fight over a girl, I would not be condemning their religion or even mentioning their faith, because the killing would have had nothing to do with their faith. But in this instance it as everything to do with their faith and religion.

[Manchild 10]

There is no 'us', there is only mankind and until we accept collectively that we're all part of the problem and responsible for the solution there will be no hope for 'us'.

 

We arent all part of the problem at all. Stop making excuses. Its the nutter muslims that are causing the problems for us all even the normal muslims who just want to get on in life. These religious toe rags are standing in the way of that.