Human barrier at Sheffield station

[Annie Bynnol 612]

Prosecuted for what exactly, if you are not in an area that requires you to have a ticket?

 

If you have got off a train, how far are you supposed to retain the ticket?

Not all the way out of the station, as barrier machines often retain the ticket before you reach that point!

 

---------- Post added 28-11-2014 at 18:11 ----------

 

 

Stopped and what? If there are no compulsory ticket areas, then you are not required to have a ticket presumably. Otherwise a CTA would be meaningless if they are compulsory everywhere.

 

Railways have had their own by-laws and acts since 1848 and require a person to have railway business on their minds when on railway property. These laws have been tested through appeals for over 150 years.

At a railway station the same applies. At the vast majority of stations your railway ticket will be sufficient proof so you show it when asked- anywhere on railway property by any TOCs authorised person. If you have not got a railway ticket you might have a receipt for a internet bought ticket you are going to get. You might have a daughter you are saying good-bye to etc. and if the nice railway person accepts this everybody is happy. There may be times when your reason is not accepted eg daughter now on train and you would then be required to give your name and address and answer questions under caution. The Rail person then sends this off to the TOCs prosecution department who will invite you to give your version eg statement from daughter/ticket/ticket receipt/heavy bags of presents/Christmas. Prosecutiondepartment writes back -no case to answer. Keep your ticket and recycle it at home.

 

 

Sheffield does not have a compulsory or mandatory anything.

CTA are usually found at complex interchanges particularly in London. For example Finsbury Park- it is so busy that the barriers are often opened- it is so complex that fraudulent people have used excuses like "I am going to collect my ticket from...", "I am going to the excess fares desk...". "I forgot to touch in my Oyster..." This makes it more difficult to prosecute. It also reduces crime and nuisance.

 

Sheffield is in difficult position

Once it had one entrance and barriers.

To cut costs it became "open".

Pay trains were introduced to cut costs. Passengers get used to paying on train. Some TOCs became and still are woeful at protecting revenue.

SCC wants access to the east side of the station and tram stop.

Save money support costs of new bridge and new tramstop and cancel or a bridge from Interchange.

EMT win franchise and the running of the station. DfT require EMT to install barriers and meet revenue protection targets.

Result -a mess.

[Olive 10]

If you take that to it's conclusion then you would need a ticket to go to the ticket office to buy a ticket!

 

That's just what I was going to say!

 

If they didn't want people to enter the station from the tram stop, they shouldn't have put the tram stop where it is. There's bound to be tons of people going from the tram to pick their train tickets up in the main ticket office. That's how it was designed, as an integrated system.

 

If you've got a smart card to use the tram, do they let you through?

[Annie Bynnol 612]

If you take that to it's conclusion then you would need a ticket to go to the ticket office to buy a ticket!

 

 

This would be irrational and therefore unenforceable on the concourse at the main entrance for all the obvious reasons.

But that could easily be the case on the overbridge as you have passed a ticket machine at the tram entrance.

If the RPI stops you and you give a reason for being on railway property (eg the overbridge) and you say you are going to Rotherham then you have broken a (bye-)law as you have passed a means of paying. If you are going to London, meeting someone, picking up tickets, going to College or Hallam or Shopping then you will either be believed or not. If not and if reported you will be given an opportunity before prosecution is decided to show that you were genuine.

It is not in the interest of EMT or the TOCs to get bad publicity from prosecuting genuine users who have good reasons for using the overbridge.

 

With EMT at the end of their franchise it will be interesting to see what DfT ask for from the next owners.

 

---------- Post added 28-11-2014 at 19:53 ----------

 

That's just what I was going to say!

 

If they didn't want people to enter the station from the tram stop, they shouldn't have put the tram stop where it is. There's bound to be tons of people going from the tram to pick their train tickets up in the main ticket office. That's how it was designed, as an integrated system.

 

If you've got a smart card to use the tram, do they let you through?

 

They have the receipt for the rail tickets/smart card/ tram ticket to prove it.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Annie Bynnol

[Olive 10]

This would be irrational and therefore unenforceable on the concourse at the main entrance for all the obvious reasons.

But that could easily be the case on the overbridge as you have passed a ticket machine at the tram entrance.

If the RPI stops you and you give a reason for being on railway property (eg the overbridge) and you say you are going to Rotherham then you have broken a (bye-)law as you have passed a means of paying. If you are going to London, meeting someone, picking up tickets, going to College or Hallam or Shopping then you will either be believed or not. If not and if reported you will be given an opportunity before prosecution is decided to show that you were genuine.

It is not in the interest of EMT or the TOCs to get bad publicity from prosecuting genuine users who have good reasons for using the overbridge.

 

With EMT at the end of their franchise it will be interesting to see what DfT ask for from the next owners.

 

 

---------- Post added 28-11-2014 at 19:53 ----------

 

 

They have the receipt for the rail tickets/smart card/ tram ticket to prove it.

 

A lot of people prefer to use the ticket office so they can make sure they get the right ticket and price. Isn't it a perfectly logical thing to use the station top entrance to access the ticket office (especially if you've travelled there by tram)? I wouldn't expect or appreciate being questioned about my intentions when I enter the station. What would the conversation go like?

 

"Have you got a ticket"?

"No, I've come to the station to buy one"

"Well I don't believe you, you can't come in this way"

"Well why did you build a flippin' door there then"?

 

Just wondering if they have the gadget to read the smartcards to see if they're valid or not, I guess so.

[Annie Bynnol 612]

A lot of people prefer to use the ticket office so they can make sure they get the right ticket and price. Isn't it a perfectly logical thing to use the station top entrance to access the ticket office (especially if you've travelled there by tram)? I wouldn't expect or appreciate being questioned about my intentions when I enter the station. What would the conversation go like?

 

"Have you got a ticket"?

"No, I've come to the station to buy one"

"Well I don't believe you, you can't come in this way"

"Well why did you build a flippin' door there then"?

 

Just wondering if they have the gadget to read the smartcards to see if they're valid or not, I guess so.

 

I totally agree and I would not like to get my money out when using the machine at the tram entrance particularly on a quiet winters evening. It really does need a solution. Perhaps the RPI or a machine at the tram entrance could issue time stamped tickets. The human barrier approach is ugly and intimidating and is awful advert from EMT.

[Olive 10]

I totally agree and I would not like to get my money out when using the machine at the tram entrance particularly on a quiet winters evening. It really does need a solution. Perhaps the RPI or a machine at the tram entrance could issue time stamped tickets. The human barrier approach is ugly and intimidating and is awful advert from EMT.

 

Yeah, it certainly does need a solution, this just keeps rumbling on year after year.

 

It either needs redesigning so that ticket only areas can be protected (at whose expense though, and actually I'm not sure how this could be achieved practically), or EMT needs to accept that the station access was designed all those years ago, with the tram stop having it's own access point. In the meanwhile, passengers going about their journeys in a perfectly reasonable way get it in the neck. No wonder people are peed off!

Edited November 28, 2014 by Olive

[JayVee 10]

They can't do what they like.

 

They wanted to put in barriers and they were stopped. Because it's recognised that it is basically a public path through to the city centre. With the access built largely with public money.

EMT don't own the station at all either, they operate it under license.

 

Sorry to hijack this posting but I am new to this!

I am going to catch a train from Chapeltown to Sheff Midland tomorrow

and would like to use my 'bus pass.Can I pay on the train?I believe its half the normal fare with the pass.

[Plain Talker 11]

Sorry to hijack this posting but I am new to this!

I am going to catch a train from Chapeltown to Sheff Midland tomorrow

and would like to use my 'bus pass.Can I pay on the train?I believe its half the normal fare with the pass.

 

Jayvee, it all depends what sort of pass you hold.

 

If its a weekly pass that you buy from the driver, then possibly not.

 

If its a pensioner pass, then you can travel for half fare.

[julado 10]

Just got in.....disappointed....no Gestapo at the station today. My quest for mischief is temporarily on hold

[JayVee 10]

Jayvee, it all depends what sort of pass you hold.

 

If its a weekly pass that you buy from the driver, then possibly not.

 

If its a pensioner pass, then you can travel for half fare.

 

Thank you for reply - is there a conductor on the train that I can pay.I heard that you cant buy a half fare ticket on the platform at Chapeltown??

[gingablade 10]

There was a bridge across the road at the town end of the station which took you to pond street. I think that the tram stop was further towards town and was rebuilt when the station was refurbished. My mate worked on the refurb which included putting in the new part of the bridge to the new tram stop. Is the other bridge still in which used to come out near the road which leads to the funeral directors still there? I haven't had to walk down there for years but remember it it had a wooden walkway and grey steel walls which were really tall.

[Plain Talker 11]

There was a bridge across the road at the town end of the station which took you to pond street. I think that the tram stop was further towards town and was rebuilt when the station was refurbished. My mate worked on the refurb which included putting in the new part of the bridge to the new tram stop. Is the other bridge still in which used to come out near the road which leads to the funeral directors still there? I haven't had to walk down there for years but remember it it had a wooden walkway and grey steel walls which were really tall.

 

The bridge is still there, it's lovingly dubbed "Mugger's Alley" as it's poorly lit and isolated. It's also practically impassible if you have mobility problems/ use a wheelchair, or have heavy luggage.

At the tram-end there's an unsafe, rickety staircase, and at the other, a steel staircase about a story-and-a-half high.