Workers on the breadline.

[Cyclone 10]

What's a leading question?

 

PS - I didn't disagree with your answer, at least the bit that addressed the question and didn't start talking about miners.

 

---------- Post added 08-10-2014 at 21:48 ----------

 

Everyone may remember times when they were broke, just managing to scrape a living, but hopefully things improve eventually, and they can look forward to better times in the future, progress up the greasy pole etc. But these people were trapped in low pay, with no way out, and not much hope of things improving - arguably, only going to get worse...

 

Anna said this.

 

I asked (when quoting her) how they were trapped.

 

She says "with no way out". As if being low paid means there is no possible escape.

 

Some people might not be all that bright, they might not be ambitious, they might just be lazy, but that's not being trapped IMO. A trap is not a situation of your own making and not something you can get out of on your own.

 

Hence the leading question about how they were trapped. Which you took out of context and started answering with regards to how miners (who aren't low paid) have limited opportunity for promotion.

[aliceBB 10]

Rent on a 3 bed terrace in Sheffield, £500...

Bottom band, £90

Work locally and that could be less.

And it could be cheaper than you worked out, by at least a few hundred I think.

 

Yes, I was trying to err on the 'generous' side.

 

Thank you for your input on that.

 

So - a joint income of £20k should be enough for a couple + 3 children to live on, assuming they use public transport/walk/cycle to work and don't smoke, drink or aspire to foreign holidays?

[Cyclone 10]

Yeah, they'll have enough, in Sheffield at least, they won't have lots to spare, but they shouldn't be "on the breadline".

[firemanbob 10]

What's a leading question?

 

PS - I didn't disagree with your answer, at least the bit that addressed the question and didn't start talking about miners.

 

I used miners because my farther was a miner, it wasn't an highly paid job, didn't come with many promotion prospect and miners tended to do the same low paid job all their life, and most found it almost impossible to get into other jobs when the mines closed. It was just one of many examples I could have used.

[aliceBB 10]

I used miners because my farther was a miner, it wasn't an highly paid job, didn't come with many promotion prospect and miners tended to do the same low paid job all their life, and most found it almost impossible to get into other jobs when the mines closed. It was just one of many examples I could have used.

 

That's because the country's heavy industrial based was dismantled in the 70s and has never been revived. There are other jobs now but they are largely low skilled, light industry/service sector.

[Guest sibon]

I used miners because my farther was a miner, .

 

You already told us.

 

Ages ago

Edited October 8, 2014 by sibon

[firemanbob 10]

You already told us.

 

Years ago

No I didn't.

[Anna B 1,414]

What's a leading question?

 

PS - I didn't disagree with your answer, at least the bit that addressed the question and didn't start talking about miners.

 

---------- Post added 08-10-2014 at 21:48 ----------

 

 

Anna said this.

 

I asked (when quoting her) how they were trapped.

 

She says "with no way out". As if being low paid means there is no possible escape.

 

Some people might not be all that bright, they might not be ambitious, they might just be lazy, but that's not being trapped IMO. A trap is not a situation of your own making and not something you can get out of on your own.

 

Hence the leading question about how they were trapped. Which you took out of context and started answering with regards to how miners (who aren't low paid) have limited opportunity for promotion.

 

Did you read my reply to this? I'll repeat it:

 

---------- Post added 08-10-2014 at 22:58 ----------

 

Actually it's very easy to get trapped in low pay. Just start by working for an agency while trying to get a proper ful time job.

 

Many employers that used to offer proper employment in whch you could work your way up from the bottom, now use agencies instead.

That way they avoid all the working rights that people spent years fighting for; holiday pay, sick pay, unfair dismissal, even, in some cases, health and safety and minimum wage legislation, (complain and you're out on your ear - no job protection here.) Your contract will conveniently terminate before you become eligible, and new workers will be taken on. Just as certain pensions have beome a thing of the past, so has working your way up in a company.

 

After a surprisingly short while and various arguments just trying to get paid, you will find that applying to the best companies that do offer decent jobs and working conditions is a waste of time, (though you still try.) Proper jobs are so oversubscribed employers can take their pick from a very big pool of eager people and agency workers, for some reason come bottom of the list. Because of their work record, they are seen as unreliable and a bit dodgy. Employers still want workers with a steady and sustained work record, and good references. People with this, School leavers and people who attract government funding or qualify for apprenticeships etc have a better chance, as do those with up to date qualifications - agency workers can rarely afford to keep up with training in their field and therefore quickly find their skills out of date, as new methods and developments come to the fore.

 

I've never said anyone should consider Sky TV, foreign holidays as a right. Most don't. But it's very dispiriting to feel undervalued and to know that in spite of working damned hard you will always be poor.

 

You have to have been there to appreciate how it feels.

 

 

Perhaps you don't agree

[Obelix 11]

That's rather a simplistic view, you may be correct in some respect though but perhaps not in others. In my experience and I've heard many other people say similar, people who don't get promoted tend to be very good at their job and while they make other people look good they are held there.

 

People who tend to doss around all day, make drastic mistakes etc tend to get promoted - anything to get rid of them by the manager, hence the saying, "Promoted to their own level of incompetence," Otherwise known as the Peter Principal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle. There are also some anecdotes of the manager completing their applications on their behalf for them too, just to try and make doubly sure they can get rid of them.

 

On top of all that there is the diversity /equal opportunity minefield to navigate too, which by their very nature isn’t. Long gone are the days of people getting promoted on the strength of their skills, qualifications and experience.

 

You clearly dont understand what the Peter Principle is getting at...

[mafya 248]

You already told us.

 

Ages ago

 

No I didn't.

 

The word Farther is spelt the same and in both instances the farther was a miner, looks like you have been busted Smithy!

[janlizzy 10]

The word Farther is spelt the same and in both instances the farther was a miner, looks like you have been busted Smithy!

 

Mafya private detective to the forum,got his suspect.But back on topic,it must be soul destroying to work and still struggle to make ends meet,when will things improve?

[Cyclone 10]

I used miners because my farther was a miner, it wasn't an highly paid job, didn't come with many promotion prospect and miners tended to do the same low paid job all their life, and most found it almost impossible to get into other jobs when the mines closed. It was just one of many examples I could have used.

 

My grandfather was a miner, it was quite well paid, although I agree that there wasn't much scope for promotion. You weren't trapped by the pay though, the pay didn't alter the opportunities for promotion.

 

Edit - Anna, yes I did read that. That's a trap to be sure, and a low pay one, but the low pay itself isn't the trap.