Biker death - hard hitting story and video

[boyfriday 21]

The car driver is at fault 100% he pulled across a moving vehicle, does not matter how fast the biker was going the car driver should have seen him and waited. You just do not pull across a road like that without looking properly. Unfortunately it is a mistake he/she will now have to live with for the rest of their lives.

 

I'm afraid I have to disagree, skinz spoke earlier about the perception of speed, especially of an oncoming vehicle. Under normal driving conditions, with a vehicle approaching from the distance you have a good idea of how long it will take to arrive at your turning point. A bike moving at 25% over the speed limit will be on top of you a lot faster than you would anticipate, so whilst I don't think the car driver can be exonerated, he/she is certainly not 'at fault 100%'.

[Danny_Boy 10]

I'm afraid I have to disagree, skinz spoke earlier about the perception of speed, especially of an oncoming vehicle. Under normal driving conditions, with a vehicle approaching from the distance you have a good idea of how long it will take to arrive at your turning point. A bike moving at 25% over the speed limit will be on top of you a lot faster than you would anticipate, so whilst I don't think the car driver can be exonerated, he/she is certainly not 'at fault 100%'.

 

I see your point but you can't just assume that on coming traffic is travelling at a specific speed. I do dislike junctions like that, crossing a fast road is hazardous and extra care should be taken. Then again I'm starting to doubt my original post blaming the car driver 100%. If the biker knew the road which I assuming he did he should realise that those kind of speeds on a road with junctions like that is dangerous.

 

I agree with a previous poster and my driving style is to expect the unexpected because like someone else says blaming someone's else can't bring you back to life.

[RootsBooster 24]

The car driver is at fault 100% he pulled across a moving vehicle, does not matter how fast the biker was going the car driver should have seen him and waited. You just do not pull across a road like that without looking properly. Unfortunately it is a mistake he/she will now have to live with for the rest of their lives.

 

I will add though that anyone travelling at those speeds on roads with junctions like that are asking for trouble. People make potentially lethal mistakes whilst driving everyday but 99% of the time they get away with it.

 

Crikey, did you really write that?

[Danny_Boy 10]

Crikey, did you really write that?

 

Yes I did and since the driver was prosecuted in April this year it would seem the police / courts agree with me.

[geared 315]

Looks more like 3 / 4 seconds to me, and at 97mph that is some distance away.

 

You must have watched another video then :confused:

 

Car crosses white lines into oncoming traffic at 2:53

Bike hits car at 2:54

 

---------- Post added 05-09-2014 at 23:37 ----------

 

Yes I did and since the driver was prosecuted in April this year it would seem the police / courts agree with me.

 

Slightly strange that people will argue so hard for the driver considering they've already been to court and been found guilty.

 

I wonder what evidence they have that the accident investigation team managed to miss :huh::huh:

 

---------- Post added 05-09-2014 at 23:40 ----------

 

I'm afraid I have to disagree, skinz spoke earlier about the perception of speed, especially of an oncoming vehicle. Under normal driving conditions, with a vehicle approaching from the distance you have a good idea of how long it will take to arrive at your turning point

 

What distance do you consider to be safe if you were to cross an A-road such as that??

 

You are also aware the driver has said they didn't even notice the bike, and as such they made no judgement about it's speed, distance or intentions.

They didn't see the car behind the bike either, I don't think they even looked to be honest.

Edited September 5, 2014 by geared

[Clown Shoes 10]

im picking up my new motorbike on Sunday so i try to avoid thinking about what 'could' happen.

 

I watched the video and its a shame but he was doing 97mph and was still exhilarating till he saw the car turning.

 

Everyone would have a different attitude to the video if he had hit a child crossing the road.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Clown Shoes

[muddywolf 10]

You must have watched another video then :confused:

 

Car crosses white lines into oncoming traffic at 2:53

Bike hits car at 2:54

 

---------- Post added 05-09-2014 at 23:37 ----------

 

 

Slightly strange that people will argue so hard for the driver considering they've already been to court and been found guilty.

 

I wonder what evidence they have that the accident investigation team managed to miss :huh::huh:

 

---------- Post added 05-09-2014 at 23:40 ----------

 

 

What distance do you consider to be safe if you were to cross an A-road such as that??

 

You are also aware the driver has said they didn't even notice the bike, and as such they made no judgement about it's speed, distance or intentions.

They didn't see the car behind the bike either, I don't think they even looked to be honest.

 

How many of us would make such mistakes if other road users were going 97MPH? I hold my hands up I'm sure I would find myself in very hard to answer situations if someone hit me at that speed and I didnt account or react in time for it.

 

One was breaking the law, one was careless, interesting to see who people side with yes I agree.

[boyfriday 21]

You must have watched another video then :confused:

 

Car crosses white lines into oncoming traffic at 2:53

Bike hits car at 2:54

 

---------- Post added 05-09-2014 at 23:37 ----------

 

 

Slightly strange that people will argue so hard for the driver considering they've already been to court and been found guilty.

 

I wonder what evidence they have that the accident investigation team managed to miss :huh::huh:

 

---------- Post added 05-09-2014 at 23:40 ----------

 

 

What distance do you consider to be safe if you were to cross an A-road such as that??

 

You are also aware the driver has said they didn't even notice the bike, and as such they made no judgement about it's speed, distance or intentions.

They didn't see the car behind the bike either, I don't think they even looked to be honest.

 

I was questioning the statement that the car driver was '100% at fault'.

[*_ash_* 88]

I watched this video, and my initial impression was the biker being mainly at fault because of his speed. I think first impression can be deceptive though.

 

I think someone said earlier that the driver admitting to not looking, which isn't correct according to the report. It says that the driver didn't see him (or the car behind).

 

There's a huge difference between not looking, and looking but not seeing.

 

As for not seeing the car behind, it's difficult to see where that car would have been. Probably quite a way back from him. At least 200 yards.

 

You can see the driver's view point here, and at the point where the car turns, the biker is at the top of the red middle section of the road (near the white sign). From this angle it looks much like driver error, and that's probably why they were charged (especially as there is quite a long run up in the right-turn lane, if you scroll back).

 

However, from another angle, this looks like quite a technical junction* for a fast A-road. It reminds me a bit of the A1, there are numerous junctions like this on it. I'm not a big fan of driving on these, mainly because it can be really tiring. People pull out all the time.

 

*by technical, I mean lots of different things that can happen, it's a cross junction type thing rather than a crossroads, and I bet it sees a lot of near misses (hence all the red paint, the slow signs etc.)

 

If this biker knew this bit of road, I think he made a serious error, even reckless.

If this biker didn't know this road, then it's reckless driving at this speed on an unknown road.

 

 

There IS a slow sign on the road too, which he paid no attention to, and continued speeding into this junction all the while. However, riding for 22 years, this man most likely new how to handle his machine. You couldn't ride for 22 years like this and be alive, unless very very lucky.

 

I think my conclusion, though I will carry on reading, is that obviously the driver has made an error, or mistake; and the biker here (at this time) was reckless riding. The outcome of course, is this. A terrible accident where the driver will no doubt hear that thud and remember that moment for ever, and of course David's family and friends have lost someone too, and especially close family/friends/partner will probably never be right again.

 

For this, I can see the reason for showing it.

 

I think it WILL make bikers think a bit more, especially at awkward junctions like this. And I think drivers at awkward junctions (obviously we don't know if they knew these roads or new to it) will see this and take another look in future.

 

-

 

Two things that also stood out for me:

 

1. How even with video footage, still no one can agree really (but either way, there are no winners, so that's perhaps moot).

 

2. Had this been a car doing 97, and a bike turned across in the same manner and the biker died, would people's opinions [blame] of the accident change? I think the car at 97 would have been considered totally at fault. (or imagine it was a bus or taxi doing it). It's something to think about.

 

---------- Post added 06-09-2014 at 01:54 ----------

 

I've thought of another thing worth considering. People have been discussing this over 4 pages, and a day or so. Hindsight is wonderful with things like this.

 

Remember, all this happened in about 2 or 3 seconds.

Edited September 6, 2014 by *_ash_*

[ronthenekred 10]

To many unknown variables from the motorists perspective. Almost non from the bikers.

 

I remember once nearly making a fatal mistake by moving on a junction. A car with a bike in front of it for a split second seemed to be as one. The bike like the one in the vid was accelerating at high speed. My partner in the rear seat seen it differently at a different angle to me and screamed (I always tell her not to scream as it frightens the crap out of me) but as a natural response to the "cry from hell" I slammed them on. One second it was a car I know through experience I could have made the manoeuvre, the next it was a bike narrowly missing me. If that bike had hit me my immediate reaction would be to say, "I didn't see the bike". The missus did. Thank fully.

There's an arrogance about bikers I don't trust, I approach them with a lot of width regardless of how many years they've sat on its seat.

Edited September 6, 2014 by ronthenekred

[RootsBooster 24]

Yes I did and since the driver was prosecuted in April this year it would seem the police / courts agree with me.

The courts found the driver guilty, that doesn't mean that the courts agree with your statement.

 

You said that it "does not matter how fast the biker was going the car driver should have seen him and waited", if a bike was travelling at 150mph or 200mph many people would have already begun to set off before the bike even comes into view.

 

On the other hand, if there was something wrong with the bike and it was limping along at 15mph, the driver would be waiting quite a long time from the point they spot it.

 

Slightly strange that people will argue so hard for the driver considering they've already been to court and been found guilty.

 

I wonder what evidence they have that the accident investigation team managed to miss :huh::huh:

 

I haven't made any argument for the driver.

Edited September 6, 2014 by RootsBooster

[Xt500 10]

The courts found the driver guilty, that doesn't mean that the courts agree with your statement.

 

You said that it "does not matter how fast the biker was going the car driver should have seen him and waited", if a bike was travelling at 150mph or 200mph many people would have already begun to set off before the bike even comes into view.

 

On the other hand, if there was something wrong with the bike and it was limping along at 15mph, the driver would be waiting quite a long time from the point they spot it.

 

 

I haven't made any argument for the driver.

 

 

 

 

No the courts didnt find the driver guilty,he went guilty hence the low punishment which i think was correct.

 

If you look back up the road from where the car was to where the bike came from there is a crest.Between the crest and the car its only about 11 car lenths which at 100 mph it would be quite easy to have checked and the bike not been there at all.

Everyone has a duty to look after themselfs on the roads and the biker failed miserably and paid the price.