Rotherham Children sexually exploited

[boyfriday 21]

So you have identified and aknowledge there was some commonality amongst the victim group which is fair enough.

 

Are you also prepared to acknowledge there was commonality amongst the offenders?

 

I dont recall ever suggesting otherwise, the abusers were paedophiles from Muslim backgrounds-that's the commonality. What I won't do is extend that observation to demonise Muslims generally.

 

Abusers are punished for being abusers, not because of their racial, cultural or social backgrounds.

 

---------- Post added 28-08-2014 at 10:49 ----------

 

Regardless of political correctness. According to this report, for the safety of my kids. I'll simply advice them to stay well away from all Pakistani males as much as possible, until this matter been properly addressed, then I can be confident of their safety. Until then, nothing people say will change my mind. It s a shame~~

 

..and in highlighting that to your children they might derive inappropriate confidence in associations with black or white paedophiles who happen not to be Pakistanis.

 

---------- Post added 28-08-2014 at 10:51 ----------

 

So what? OK then, should UAF or the EDL or whoever kick up a fuss about being aggravated by the authorities, do you think the authorities should stop harassing them so they can continue their plans? It’s the same sort of thing.

 

Sorry Mecky, not really sure of your point.

[SportsTrophy 10]

I've seen it myself in a former home in the area. Loud banging as a door gets kicked in screams from a woman as she is grabbed by a gang of men crawling into the house through a hole made in the bottom of the door. Scream of young girls running for their lives up the stairs.

 

Then men, running like thieves in the night dispersing down alley ways as you bang loudly on the door. Such cowards and life destroyers. They are now "family men" but really wife beaters and paedophiles but the wives and children wont say so.

Edited August 28, 2014 by SportsTrophy

[Mecky 10]

Sorry Mecky, not really sure of your point.

 

My point is, you're one of them who undoubtedly says something like don't pick on me, you're tarring everyone with the same brush, pick on them instead ... go away and find some real criminals etc

[Dr Seuss 10]

In light of this week's news from Rotherham, this thread needs to be reread.

 

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1322822

[boyfriday 21]

My point is, you're one of them who undoubtedly says something like don't pick on me,

Well you're quite wrong, I think you're superimposing your view of me onto my posts, I'd have thought over the years you'd have appreciated Ive no fear of placing my head above the parapet for people to take pot shots at and am more than happy to address those criticisms, as I have done in response to your post.

you're tarring everyone with the same brush, pick on them instead ... go away and find some real criminals etc

 

Still baffled-did you read what I said about the abusers relating to this thread?

 

---------- Post added 28-08-2014 at 11:41 ----------

 

Yes, quite large number of them are, or having that tendency, and I don't care political correctness.

 

How about caring for facts or not arriving at negative judgements until you're in possession of them?

[tzijlstra 11]

All my efforts to investigate sexual abuse of children in the 1970's in R -11-

 

On the 1st April, 1974, Sheffield and Rotherham Constabulary combined with large areas of the former West Riding Constabulary to form the new South Yorkshire Police. I was serving at Rotherham at the time. Former officers of the West Riding were promoted and transferred to South Yorkshire, including Chief Superintendent Greaves, and his brother in law, Detective Chief Inspector Hatton, the former becoming the commander of the new expanded Rotherham ‘C’ Division, the latter the head of the divisional C.I.D.

 

Later that year, I investigated a case of rape and attempted rape of a nine years old girl. The offender was identified as ’Uncle Vic’, a former neighbour and friend of the girl’s family. I arrested him late that night, and took him to Rotherham police station. Astonishingly, he immediately admitted what he had done to the child, and willingly made a complete statement of admission. I was curious why he had been so open about assaulting a child in that way, and he replied to the effect, “Because you’re wasting your time and my time, you should forget it.”

 

I charged and locked him up, but shortly afterwards, three of his own daughters attended the station to complain that he had been raping them as each of them attained the age of six years.

 

When interviewed, ’Uncle Vic’ again frankly admitted the accusations by his daughters, but this time, I was more interested in the reason for his frankness. “You’ll find out,” was all he would say.

 

Following a full investigation, I charged him with additional various offences of rape and incest, his reply to each one being ’I’ve told you, you’re wasting your time.”

 

Several days before he would be committed for trial at Crown Court, my desk drawers were forced open, and all the original papers in the case were stolen. Without these, the case could not proceed to committal, and an application by defence solicitors would result in it being thrown out on the grounds that the police could not make out a prima facie case. I panicked, and spread the word amongst other officers that someone in the force had stolen the papers.

 

A serving West Riding officer visited me on the night before committal, and he told me that Hatton had been well known in the West Riding to

-12-

sabotage cases of child sexual abuse (the term paedophilia was not used in those days), and that everyone knew about it. He also told me that Hatton kept the stolen files in his office until the cases had been dismissed, when he would destroy them.

 

I didn’t know the informant, and realised that he could be setting me up to burgle Hatton’s office. I was desperate and decided that there was no way that ’Uncle Vic’ was going to be sent back to his family to continue abusing his children. Next morning, I went to D.H.Q. at Ship Hill in Rotherham, and burst into Hatton’s office, pushing him out of the way and began searching his desk. I found the stolen papers in one of the drawers along with others missing from officers files in Rotherham.

 

I informed him that I was reporting him to the Chief Constable for attempting to pervert the course of justice, and walked into court as Uncle Vic was being produced from the cells. I handed the papers over to the clerk, at which, the defendant’s wife, who had been sitting in the public gallery at the back of the court, leapt to her feet, and ran screaming that I was destroying her family towards me. She reached me standing in the well of the court and immediately attacked me, scratching all her finger nails down my face.

 

She was taken away by other officers in the court. I declined to bring any charges against her, but when I left the court, I was told to report to Greaves. His office was in the same building.

 

When I stood before his desk, he launched into as tirade of abuse at me, accusing me of running a vendetta against Hatton, and threatening me with being ‘dealt with’ if I took the matter any further. I responded by informing him that I was reporting him for conspiring with Hatton to pervert the course of justice.

 

I prepared a file against the two officers at home that evening, and delivered it to the Chief Constable’s office next morning. Later that day, I applied for transfer back to one of the Sheffield Divisions.

 

About three weeks later, I was summoned to appear at the Detective Chief Superintendent’s office. He took my report apart, tearing each page and throwing them in the waste bin, and as he did so, informing me to mind my own business or I would be ‘dealt with’ if I did not drop it.

 

-13-

 

I was subsequently over ruled with the charges of rape I had brought against the defendant, and they were replaced by the relatively minor charges of Incest. The law was quite clear on the issue, children of a tender age cannot possibly consent to sexual intercourse, and so it must be construed as Rape. However, The Crown did not object to the replaced charges, and the defendant received a ridiculous sentence of 4 years imprisonment, for which he would serve only 2 years.

 

Postscript to this shocking affair.

 

Vic had an elder daughter, who was married with her own children. I spoke with her in the presence of her husband. Whilst she understandably did not want to be included in the list of charges against her father, she told me that he had raped her regularly after she attained the age of 6 years. She also told me that on some occasions, other men would be present in the bedroom, and some of them would assault her in a variety of disgusting ways. She also said that often there would be a bright light at the back of the room and one of the men seemed to be operating what appeared to be a camera on a tripod.

 

Amongst the men were police officers, who, her father said, would lock her up if she told anyone about it.

 

 

All this had taken place in a village called Brinsworth, which until the 1st April, 1974, had been within the West Riding of Yorkshire and policed by the West Riding Constabulary. After that date it became part of Rotherham Metropolitan Borough.

 

During my years prior to this date whilst working in the C.I.D. occasionally, late in the evenings, a gathering of officers, some quite senior, would take place in a tiny studio at the end of the C.I.D. corridor.

8 mm films would be shown, ostensibly they were what had been seized by Plain Clothes Department under the Obscene Publications Act. I was on duty on several of these occasions, and recognised West Riding officers amongst Sheffield and Rotherham men, all out of uniform.

 

Any reader of this account can come to their own conclusion over this,

 

 

-14-

 

Since learning of Greaves’ malicious libel I have attempted to persuade South Yorkshire Police to release documents to me covering my personal and personnel files, that of my pension, and the file relating to the complaint against Greaves.

 

Some requests have been ignored, others simply refused on the grounds that it would not be in the public interest to release them to me. The force even refused to disclose to me the historical pension scheme under which my pension was awarded.

 

I failed to protect those children, when Vic was released from prison, he returned to the family without any complaint or interference from Social Services.

 

Your first priority Sir must be to gain possession of the files and read them yourself, and then it will be your duty to deal with them.

 

I am Sir,

 

Yours very sincerely,

 

LETTER TO POLICE COMMISSIONER.

 

Harry Bunker.

 

 

 

otherham

 

This clearly elaborates on the utter incompetence and inability to act by the police.

 

If this is true, and I have to doubt it merely because this is a forum, than I hope your voice will be heard and justice will be forced upon those involved.

 

---------- Post added 28-08-2014 at 11:51 ----------

 

If not more, I rest my case. I ll just do whatever need to be done. I ll leave you guys enjoy useless discussions, all you doing in forum is to talk in circles, killing your time. In practise, make no difference and contribution in reality. Bye bye

 

If your interpretation of contributing to reality is that you teach your kids to mistrust an entire community because of the actions of a significant minority in that community than I don't want to take part in your reality, as such: bye bye, good riddance.

[Zamo 10]

Crikey, you have a vivid imagination in anointing me with opinions I haven't expressed. If I were apologising for PC zealots my indignation wouldn't so squarely be directed at the failures within Rotherham social services would it? I've no need to apologise for Muslims since these deviant acts aren't carried out because the perpetrators are Muslims, child sexual exploitation sadly afflicts all cultures and eschelons of society, it just so happens in this instance the perpetrators were Muslim..and I've roundly denounced them too, several times on this thread.

 

You said that the fear was "in peoples heads", dismissed it as a reason and therefore deny the influence of PC zealots is creating a culture of fear. Sounds like a defence of PC zealots to me.

 

And since when does a problem have to be unique to a group for criticism to be valid? Is the fact that the problem is prevalent not enough? So, yes, you are apologising for the Muslim community because you are saying they should not be blamed for the nurturing that goes on in their communities, which results is a disproportionate amount of sexual predators, religious extremists and terrorists.

 

I said they shouldn't be blamed anymore than Catholics should be blamed for the shortcomings of abusive priests or white, Europeans should be held accountable for the abusive behaviour of white Europeans who visit the Far East to abuse children.

 

The Catholic community brought people up to feel shame about what was going on and if anyone did speak out they faced being shunned. The community was culpable just as the Muslim community is for their problems.

 

Paedophiles are a product of nature not nurture and we can only blame the community if they ignore child abuse. Therefore, the blame for paedophiles abusing kids in the Far East rests not with the community into which the paedophile was born but with the community that allows the paedophile to commit abuse.

 

Did you read the report about the laddish, sexist culture that existed amongst the agencies who were required to protect children in Rotherham.

 

Yes, what is your point?

 

Who made the claim that social services were racist-any of the abusers? Even if it were made, so what? All reports of child abuse should be dealt with sensitively, whatever the background of the people involved. However if the evidence in cases like these had been so overwhelming, then frankly Ive no sympathy for the people who deferred to this fear, they should quite properly have held their heads up high and sought warrants so the accused were dragged kicking and screaming from their beds...in their position being accused of 'racism' would have fallen on deaf ears.

 

You are over simplifying it. This is how is works...

 

The fear comes from the top i.e. the professionally and politically ambitious do not want their careers blighted with an accusation that a department that they have some responsibility for is acting is a racist way. As such they avoid the risk of an accusation by blocking investigations where the risk exists. When that keeps happening then what happens next is that the management at the next level down stop taking the cases to their bosses because they know the drill i.e. it isn't going anywhere and they know it isn't good for their career to not take the hint and show initiative. This cascades down until you reach the workers at the bottom. So what do people like social workers then do? If you have more cases than you can handle (and we know that is the case) then something has to give and we should not be surprised that the cases that they drop are the ones that they know from experience will not go anywhere.

 

That is how over zealous political correctness leads to a culture of fear and it is a pattern that has been repeated across the country.

 

Sadly in this instance I'm not challenging the views of 'average human beings', the detractors are further down the food chain.

 

You are challenging how people within the council and police responded to the culture they work in. I'm saying you'd be no different and shouldn't judge.

 

..and what does that have to do with Islam or creating a 'culture' of fear associated with erroneous claims of racism..it wasn't Muslims that did that.

 

I don't blame Muslims for political correctness going too far - I blame that on the PC zealots and you can find many here on SF.

[slother 10]

This clearly elaborates on the utter incompetence and inability to act by the police.

 

If this is true, and I have to doubt it merely because this is a forum, than I hope your voice will be heard and justice will be forced upon those involved.

 

---------- Post added 28-08-2014 at 11:51 ----------

 

 

If your interpretation of contributing to reality is that you teach your kids to mistrust an entire community because of the actions of a significant minority in that community than I don't want to take part in your reality, as such: bye bye, good riddance.

 

Staggering. I'm so sorry you had to live through that and I'm glad that your conviction that you are righteous and they are not appears undimmed.

 

Nothing to do with political correctness, then?

[Victoria1867 10]

Read 'exploited' by Emma Jackson. True story which happened in Rotherham.

[tzijlstra 11]

Staggering. I'm so sorry you had to live through that and I'm glad that your conviction that you are righteous and they are not appears undimmed.

 

Nothing to do with political correctness, then?

 

Sorry, what is your point because you are making it so poorly I don't understand it.

[Mecky 10]

Well you're quite wrong, I think you're superimposing your view of me onto my posts, I'd have thought over the years you'd have appreciated Ive no fear of placing my head above the parapet for people to take pot shots at and am more than happy to address those criticisms, as I have done in response to your post.

 

 

Still baffled-did you read what I said about the abusers relating to this thread?

 

---------- Post added 28-08-2014 at 11:41 ----------

 

 

How about caring for facts or not arriving at negative judgements until you're in possession of them?

 

You, know I'm right, as does everyone else. There is generally a real reason for stereotyping and most of the time it's pretty accurate. People try to challenge under fairness, so concerns are suppressed by the state, unless it’s the state doing the stereotyping, as I said before.

[slother 10]

Sorry, what is your point because you are making it so poorly I don't understand it.

 

Sorry I quoted the wrong person. I was referring to the testimony of the 1970s police officer as further proof that my analysis of political correctness in this case is correct. Namely:

 

So we're laughing at political correctness, whilst also acknowledging that more political correctness (y'know, respecting and treating everyone equally, ensuring that minority voices are heard and respected) would've gone a long way in ensuring these events never happened. In fact, is it possible that the infamously sandal wearing, liberal & wimpy South Yorks police have used "fear of appearing politically incorrect" to deflect the blame from the incompetence and corruption of individuals onto a nebulous leftist cultural paradigm, and is it possible that you're dumb enough to fall for it?