Could Sheffield be revived like Liverpool was by Michael Heseltine?

[tinfoilhat 11]

So why did you refuse to acknowledge the rest of my sentence in that post, in which I clearly answered your question?

 

You haven't replied to any of my posts and that's fine. The whole splitting of families thing was a massive over reaction in my view, and a contradiction too. Is splitting families a good thing as in the same sentence you talk of improving the community? Which is it?

 

Converting old disused warehouses and or knackered housing into something better is a good thing. The thing with big cities be it Liverpool London or Sheffield there are still cheaper (and for that read crappier crime ridden if you want) for those without the big bucks to move into. But taking these old industrial buildings and converting them helps an area become more prosperous. Manchester did a similar thing too.

 

---------- Post added 30-07-2014 at 21:03 ----------

 

Liverpool hasn't been known for its derelict docks for decades. The waterfront area has undergone massive development over decades.

 

Your thread title says Liverpool was revived by Heseltine. Now you say Liverpool regenerated itself,

 

Whenever I walk the canal it terminates at Sheffield Canal Basin at Victoria Quay. And none of it looks like a bloody mess.

 

It's as if you're a troll.

 

Do you think it's busy down at Victoria quay or is it a bit of missed trick? There's a photograph in morrisons at halfway showing it full of boats and people - it looked great. Admittedly I don't go down there much at all but I've rarely seen much activity down there - but that might be poor timing.

[emma royd 10]

Liverpool hasn't been known for its derelict docks for decades. The waterfront area has undergone massive development over decades.

 

Your thread title says Liverpool was revived by Heseltine. Now you say Liverpool regenerated itself,

 

Whenever I walk the canal it terminates at Sheffield Canal Basin at Victoria Quay. And none of it looks like a bloody mess.

 

It's as if you're a troll.

 

Hesseltine was instrumental in the whole regeneration of Liverpool docks area.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-23266384

Conservative peer Lord Heseltine has been given an honorary fellowship by a Liverpool university in recognition of his part in the city's regeneration.

 

Lord Heseltine helped the city change its image after the Toxteth riots in 1981 and was instrumental in the transformation of the Albert Dock.

 

At the time the docks were derelict and shut. Now they are a jewel and a major tourist attraction.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Dock

 

the general decline of docking in the city meant that the future of the Albert Dock was uncertain. Numerous plans were developed for the re-use of the buildings but none came to fruition and in 1972 the dock was finally closed. Having lain derelict for nearly ten years, the redevelopment of the dock began in 1981, when the Merseyside Development Corporation was set up, with the Albert Dock being officially re-opened in 1984.

 

Today the Albert Dock is a major tourist attraction in the city and the most visited multi-use attraction in the United Kingdom, outside of London. It is a vital component of Liverpool's UNESCO designated World Heritage Maritime Mercantile City and the docking complex and warehouses also comprise the largest single collection of Grade I listed buildings anywhere in the UK.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canning_Dock

 

Along with the Albert Dock and others in the immediate vicinity, Canning Dock was abandoned as a commercial shipping facility in 1972 due to the rising cost of dredging and falling numbers in traffic.[2] It was restored in the 1980s and provides access to the Canning Graving Docks, which are part of the Merseyside Maritime Museum.

 

If you think Sheffield Canal is attractive beyond the canal basin you must be comparing it with some pretty poor competition.

 

Perhaps you should stop trolling and check your facts.

[poppet2 13]

You haven't replied to any of my posts and that's fine. The whole splitting of families thing was a massive over reaction in my view, and a contradiction too. Is splitting families a good thing as in the same sentence you talk of improving the community? Which is it?

 

Converting old disused warehouses and or knackered housing into something better is a good thing. The thing with big cities be it Liverpool London or Sheffield there are still cheaper (and for that read crappier crime ridden if you want) for those without the big bucks to move into. But taking these old industrial buildings and converting them helps an area become more prosperous. Manchester did a similar thing too.

 

Well yes, in your view, but my view and the views of those families who are affected because of the gentrification of the area, differs from your view.

What was wrong with converting the old warehouses into a combination of affordable housing whereby all types of communities can benefit from, instead of just building luxury flats on the riverside? This is what is happening throughout London and it is happening further and further afield. London is no longer cheap at all, which is why people are leaving.

 

---------- Post added 30-07-2014 at 21:49 ----------

 

The point still stands - if you want to get a place sorted it's often easier to excise the canker than to put on innumerable sticking plasters

 

But it shouldn't have to be at the expense of socially cleansing the local population.

Edited July 30, 2014 by poppet2

[Obelix 11]

Which is why I don't understand your flippant remark about such a serious matter? You of all people should know better then to score cheap points.

 

The only person trying to score cheap points off it poppet dear was you - you were the one who came up with synthetic accusations and went off crying when people called you on them.

 

Now are you going to address the serious points raised or just have another go at trying to score points because it's easier than you know - debating?

 

---------- Post added 31-07-2014 at 02:24 ----------

 

 

But it shouldn't have to be at the expense of socially cleansing the local population.

 

And as you are well aware I never claimed it was so less with your false accusations please.

[tinfoilhat 11]

Well yes, in your view, but my view and the views of those families who are affected because of the gentrification of the area, differs from your view.

What was wrong with converting the old warehouses into a combination of affordable housing whereby all types of communities can benefit from, instead of just building luxury flats on the riverside? This is what is happening throughout London and it is happening further and further afield. London is no longer cheap at all, which is why people are leaving.

 

---------- Post added 30-07-2014 at 21:49 ----------

 

 

But it shouldn't have to be at the expense of socially cleansing the local population.

 

What families though? When the aforementioned crap housing in parts of the east end was levelled many took the opportunity to up sticks and move to fringes of London and Essex, (we had one aunt who stayed apparently) and that's the case now. The so called "white flight" from barking isn't traditional white families (and first generation Asian immigrants as well) aren't being driven out by immigrants or cost of living - they have made a few quid and moved to the likes of Brentwood and Basildon !! I'll dig out the bbc article showing figures.

 

I'm still unsure how converted warehouses drive out people who never lived there in first place. Besides, last time I was out that way, some the older 1980s conversions sat next to some pretty rough areas as well as some nicer ones. It was quite the mix.

[yellowperil 10]

I was in Liverpool this last week. It is difficult to imagine this was the same run down city that Derek Hatton led in the 1980s. Michael Hesseltine was given the freedom of Liverpool by the Labour Council because of his efforts in creating the transformation.

 

Last week the place was alive. During the day folks sat outside pubs and cafes all over the city. Liverpool 1 was buzzing. The docks area was filled with folks. In the evenings the city centre was packed. There are still scruffy bits but the opptimism of the locals is fantastic.

 

The transformation was incredible. Could the same be done in Sheffield?

 

Was this the week when the robotic giants were there?

If so you cant compare the feelings of the people at the event and their cheery attitude in the good weather to normal everyday feeling really.

 

Sheffield has had the tramlines festival with the same upbeat feeling around the place.

It brings out the best in the people that attend.

[Mecky 10]

The "City of Culture" thing, although widely mocked, certainly helped Liverpool get on the map and encouraged investment and a whole new way of looking at themselves.

 

I'll repeat it until I'm blue in the face but other cities seem to grasp whatever advantages or opportunities they have and go with them. Liverpool; brilliant, Lincoln; terrific, Birmingham; redeveloped their canal basin - can't move for punters. Sheffield - I know someone who has lived here for 20 years who didn't even know we had a canal basin.

 

And don't lets start blaming "t'council" . Some of it is old fashioned curmudgeonly attitudes of the people who live here.

 

That area will probablly do better once the grubby markets are knocked down. Sheffield had an arena, Leeds had to get one. Sheffield got Meadowhall, Manchester had to get the Trafford Centre etc. Maybe people just like to knock Sheffield because they're not from here and think they're better than us, maybe that sort of attitude is being to rub off onto Sheffielders

[Riannon 10]

What was wrong with converting the old warehouses into a combination of affordable housing whereby all types of communities can benefit from, instead of just building luxury flats on the riverside?

 

That's pretty easy to answer. Buildings only have windows on the outside. So when you convert a warehouse into flats you need to divide the space so rooms have windows. This inevitably means huge warehouses have to be converted into flats with large , usually open plan rooms. Big flats means they are not suitable for low cost housing.

[Eater Sundae 12]

As far as waterways are concerned it's unfair to compare us with those 3 cities. Liverpool is known for its docks. Birmingham is known for having more miles of canal than Venice and Lincoln is so small its canal basin takes up a fair part of its city centre. I'd guess most Sheffielders would know a lot about our rivers given their role in stimulating steel production, and canals are a poor second. Other than the Tinsley canal how many do we have?

 

It's a pity that Sheffield's Canal Basin is a bit of a backwater. I've not been to Lincoln for many years - am I right in thinking that the University it as the side of the main water area? If so, I can see that adding to its vitality.

 

One that surprises me is Leeds, around the Armouries. Despite what is clearly a lot of investment in the area, and an attempt to make it a place to visit, it is pretty dead. Despite offices, the Armouries, good parking facilities and lots of apartments, the shopping/restaurant area has never taken off. A lot of the units have never been let, and others have come and gone. When they were there, there was never much footfall.

[LeMaquis 10]

Buildings only have windows on the outside.

 

Are you sure about that? Every office block I've worked in has windows between offices and corridors. Same for schools. Same for most large buildings.

[Riannon 10]

Are you sure about that? Every office block I've worked in has windows between offices and corridors. Same for schools. Same for most large buildings.

 

That's not really the point. A pane of glass between an office and a corridor is just a glass internal wall. It isn't acceptable in a house/flat to have no outside windows. That would be a cave.

[LeMaquis 10]

That's not really the point. A pane of glass between an office and a corridor is just a glass internal wall. It isn't acceptable in a house/flat to have no outside windows. That would be a cave.

 

A frame with glass in it built into a wall is a window regardless of where the wall is.

 

I accept that as you live in Derbyshire you probably still have the window tax and so most of yours are still bricked up, even allowing for most buildings near you being barns, but a spade's a spade and a window's a window.