Immigrants a gain or drain?

[johncocker 10]

I love the fact that people are talking about immigrants as a gain or a drain. Like we aren't people just like you are. Like there aren't Brits living abroad. This whole topic is so nationalist that it is ridiculous beyond belief. What makes it even more ridiculous is how many people don't even understand why it is ridiculous.

 

 

 

'

I have heard this line trotted out on many occasion, but this is just not the case, if you actually take the time to speak to the older generation, the working class ones who actually fought on the front line, they fought to protect their own families and country, and are in the main absolutely horrified at the scale of immigration into this country.

The biggest elephant in the room is population growth and sustainability, we need to talk demographics and have sensible policies to achieve the best and proper planned immigration policies. Political parties are cowardly in tackling the problem in any meaningful manner, or with any clarity, hence the growth in the BNP.

An objective debate needs to balance both the positive AND negative impact

of immigration on this country, and acknowledge the mistakes of the past. Present levels are unsustainable.

It is the rate of immigration and its impact on local communities that is the problem, not immigration per se. In some areas communities have changed out of all recognition, too quickly, it is a mistake to believe communities can adapt at the same speed.

Most people are not worried about the colour of people's skin, but they are concerned that the values that determine the makeup of the country they live in are not fundementally changed.

'

[Guest sibon]

Why on earth would anybody want to go to Asia, Africa or Latin America?

They are poor countries with no work to offer, that's why they come here?

 

They are continents, not countries.

 

And they have expanding economies.

[tzijlstra 11]

'

I have heard this line trotted out on many occasion, but this is just not the case, if you actually take the time to speak to the older generation, the working class ones who actually fought on the front line, they fought to protect their own families and country, and are in the main absolutely horrified at the scale of immigration into this country.

The biggest elephant in the room is population growth and sustainability, we need to talk demographics and have sensible policies to achieve the best and proper planned immigration policies. Political parties are cowardly in tackling the problem in any meaningful manner, or with any clarity, hence the growth in the BNP.

An objective debate needs to balance both the positive AND negative impact

of immigration on this country, and acknowledge the mistakes of the past. Present levels are unsustainable.

It is the rate of immigration and its impact on local communities that is the problem, not immigration per se. In some areas communities have changed out of all recognition, too quickly, it is a mistake to believe communities can adapt at the same speed.

Most people are not worried about the colour of people's skin, but they are concerned that the values that determine the makeup of the country they live in are not fundementally changed.

'

 

Yeah, let's talk demographics and let's have the truth about the state of Britain.

 

You can look up my older posts on the topic, to give you a short synopsis: Without immigrants the elderly you seem keen to talk about wouldn't have a healthcare system, nor would they have a pension.

 

But hey, history is a good benchmark, except when you want to use it to bash immigrants, sad thing is, there have been immigrants coming to these shores for centuries.

[johncocker 10]

They are continents, not countries.

 

And they have expanding economie

s.

 

And I might add Many of the men (never women incidentally: revealing in itself) arriving here as either bogus asylum seekers or legal/ illegal economic migrants are often from the wealthy sections of these societies. That's why they can afford the extortionate fees to pay handlers to get here but also evidences the fact they aren't persecuted in their countries at all; compounded by the fact many are Doctors or engineers - why would any country persecute Doctors or Engineers in their country? It's a nonsense. And sadly genuine ones will be caught up in the backlash now taking place against the totally undemocratic way this issue has been handled.

[poppet2 13]

They are continents, not countries.

 

And they have expanding economies.

 

Oh good, so let's send all our long-term unemployed there then.

 

Are you aware they live on $1 a day?

In Asia a poor family of 10 all live in one bedsit.

[mjw47 10]

John Cocker.

 

'The working class ones who actually fought on the front line'.

 

How many of those have you been speaking to lately?

 

An 18 year old in 1945 wouldn't have had the chance to see much action 'on the front line' and he'd be 87 now.

 

My father fought in WW2 he's been dead 24 years and would be 96 if still alive!

 

The problem is real, there's no doubt of that but rationality is required not hyperbole.

 

In my view there is no problem with 'genuine' immigration.

 

By that I mean people who come here to work, contribute to the nation and improve their lives.

 

Obviously that can only happen if there is sufficient work for them and there should also be a reasonable minimum wage enforced to prevent exploitation.

 

I would also accept in people who are genuinely in fear of their lives.

 

What we need to exclude are people looking for a free ride and criminals one step ahead of the law in their own country.

 

At present it seems to me that we have no efficient means of guaranteeing the exclusion of those two last categories.

 

That is unacceptable and can't continue but stigmatizing the majority of decent hardworking immigrants will only lead to major trouble.

 

What is needed is for one of the main political parties to come up with a logical, humane and practical means of addressing the problem.

 

And no Ukip is not the answer, they are a bunch of incompetents that would exacerbate the problem.

[johncocker 10]

Why on earth would anybody want to go to Asia, Africa or Latin America?

They are poor countries with no work to offer, that's why they come here?

 

why on earth would anybody want to go ?

that's because it's impossible to do so. Maybe Britain ought to have had, or now ought to have, a similar "guest labour" policy as adopted by the UAE (and Japan and South Korea) since it federated in 1971. That way, you could bring in slave labour, pay slave labour rates, and grow the economy ten-fold in a decade....without, I might add, having to worry about issuing citizenship certificates, passports, health benefits, or inviting the extended family over to join the said slave laborour .

The White Man's Burden of saving the world has long been a myth, yet on the one hand you expect the West to save the Rest, while crying racism at the same time.

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2014 at 14:51 ----------

 

[QU

OTE=poppet2;10587292]Oh good, so let's send all our long-term unemployed there then.

 

Are you aware they live on $1 a day?

In Asia a poor family of 10 all live in one bedsit.

 

are you aware:loopy: the BRIC countries along with kuwaite.uae,quatar hong kong singapore are some of the wealthiest countrys in the world

[firemanbob 10]

Yeah, let's talk demographics and let's have the truth about the state of Britain.

 

You can look up my older posts on the topic, to give you a short synopsis: Without immigrants the elderly you seem keen to talk about wouldn't have a healthcare system, nor would they have a pension.

 

But hey, history is a good benchmark, except when you want to use it to bash immigrants, sad thing is, there have been immigrants coming to these shores for centuries.

 

Yes they would.

[tzijlstra 11]

Yes they would.

 

The only way they would is if the rest of the country would bend over backwards to provide it for them. Presuming you are happy to do that, now cut your income by 5-10% to enable it.

 

Enjoy!

[lks395907 10]

Well I'm afraid you've got that wrong on both counts.

 

I am entitled to dual nationality as a birthright and decided to obtain an Irish passport for travel purposes, I can hold both simultaneously should I wish but can't see much point.

 

A few years back I needed to renew my passport urgently as an unexpected trip had come up.

 

In order to do so I had to visit the Irish passport office in London.

 

When I arrived the place was fairly crowded with about 80 people in the waiting area.

 

Three of us were white, when I asked one of them what was going on, as these people were already in the UK he replied 'have you seen the amount they can get in Ireland?'

 

As for the way they are treat it's not that different to here, the ones that have come to work are welcome, the ones that have come for the benefit system alone are not.

 

Incidentally the population of the Republic is 4,591,087. The link I provided above showed that 289,000 of them are British expats.

 

Add in the Poles, of which there are 122,585 and people from Africa 65,078.

 

Those are just three types of immigrants and as a percentage of the population it's significant.

 

In fact the figures are UK percentage of immigrants to population 12.4%

 

Irish Republic percentage 15.9%.

 

So when you say you 'don't see many immigrants flocking to the Emerald Isle' perhaps a visit to Specsavers is called for?

 

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/list_of_countries_by_immigrant_population

 

Have a look, some of it is surprising.

 

12.4% of the uk population is a little different to 15.9% of a comparativly small republic population ..........i reckon we have the same number of immigrants in Luton & Leicester as there are in southern Ireland:roll:

Edited July 17, 2014 by lks395907

[firemanbob 10]

The only way they would is if the rest of the country would bend over backwards to provide it for them. Presuming you are happy to do that, now cut your income by 5-10% to enable it.

 

Enjoy!

 

No one would have to bend over backwards or pay extra tax.

[tzijlstra 11]

12.4% of the uk population is a little different to 15.9% of a comparativly small republic population ..........i reckon we have he same number of immigrants in Luton & Leicester as there are in southern Ireland:roll:

 

And? You spend as much time in Luton and Leicester as a Dublin person spends in Dublin?