Research on school appeals and placements

[last warrior 10]

Hi all

 

I am wanting to gather some information on the allocation of school places (primary or secondary schools) to families residing in the Burngreave, Firth park, Firvale area of Sheffield.

 

If anyone has this year appealed for a place at schools in S10 or S11 post code areas of Sheffield such as High Storrs and Tapton I would be interested in hearing your stories whether unsuccessful or successful.

 

I looking to collect data to see if families from Burngreave are restricted access to schools in the S10 , S11 areas of Sheffield.

 

Please send me a private post if you are willing to share your experiences.

 

Thanks

[The Joker 10]

Tapton is notoriously difficult to get into, with good reason - it is a very good school.

 

I know one child from S5 who got in, but that's only because his brother went to Abbeydale school and was one of the lucky pupils who was assimilated into Tapton when Abbeydale closed. He got in because he had a sibling there.

 

I know of a few other parents in S4 / S9 who played the system to get their kids into those schools, usually by temporarily renting an unoccupied property and presenting that address to the LEA as their permanent home address and being economical with the truth during the appeals process... god help them when they have to start school as it's several bus rides away. I don't think they fully thought this through

 

King Edwards is one of the easier schools to get into; it accepts pupils from all over the city including S5 without having to go through the appeals process.

 

What's your interest in this topic?

 

Let me know if you have any more questions. I'll answer them honestly but I won't name names

Edited July 12, 2014 by The Joker

[last warrior 10]

I have spoken to a few people and it seems from speaking to these people that when they get to school appeals that information may not be as transparent and accurate as it really could and should be.

 

I have seen schools in Burngreave have 32 children per class in primary schools but then I see children rejected places at S10, S11 primary schools because the number has reached 30.

 

I recently heard a school had the potential to take on further pupils but decided to stop short of the maximum they could hold. A parent who found this information out challenged it and got her child a place at the school. Other parents that did not know this information may obviously have missed out.

 

So I just wanted to hear what other people's own experiences were and whether the above were isolated incidents or part of a wider growing problem.

[The Joker 10]

I have seen schools in Burngreave have 32 children per class in primary schools but then I see children rejected places at S10, S11 primary schools because the number has reached 30.

 

I recently heard a school had the potential to take on further pupils but decided to stop short of the maximum they could hold. A parent who found this information out challenged it and got her child a place at the school. Other parents that did not know this information may obviously have missed out.

 

You're talking about primary schools here, not secondary, correct?

 

Because primary schools are another matter entirely.

 

Why on earth would a parent drag their little 'un to a primary school on the other side of the city?

 

I can understand these pushy parents wanting their precious little buttercup to get into one of the better secondary schools, but to go to that much trouble for a primary school? Unless its because they want their child to be in a feeder school for the secondary to give them an advantage over other pupils in the area... which given that secondary school is several years away and plenty could happen in that time, gives me great concern over the mental state of the parent and the pressure they will be putting on little buttercup.

 

Really, if the parent has such little faith in their local primary schools, some of which have good reputations, then I'd seriously recommend they home school instead

Edited July 12, 2014 by The Joker

[last warrior 10]

I'm talking about both primary and secondary school, just that on my earlier post the first example I gave was that of a primary school.

 

What I wanted to understand is when it comes to appeals, what are people thoughts on the appeal process.

 

There appears to be a scenario which you eluded to in an earlier post when you said parents know how to play the 'system'. Those that know how to tackle the appeal process/application process appear to have a greater chance of success whilst those that experience it for the first time or don't know the 'system' appear to be disadvantaged. Those that are aware of educational processes and regulations appear to be able to better challenge information given at appeals whereas other parents would not dream of doing so.

 

Therefore it appears at first sight to be a slightly unfair process, but until I research the topic further I will reserve my judgement.

[The Joker 10]

I think the selection process is heavily weighed against the brighter children of poorer parents from out of catchment, but isn't that really a separate argument related to Old Labour abolishing the Grammar Schools?

 

The selection process for Secondary schools is based on certain criteria. I don't have the exact list to hand, but it's something like this:

 

First priority for secondary school places is for 'looked after' children, which is those with special needs, or in foster care or in a children's home.

 

The next priorities (I can't remember the exact order, I'm sure google will tell you) are for:

those living in the catchment area + with a sibling at the school

those living in the catchment area

those with a sibling at the school

those at feeder primary schools

 

And only after all that, do the other children from out of catchment get a chance.

 

So if you're a bright child from out of catchment, you're right at the bottom of the list.

 

And if you go through the appeals process, that is the criteria you will be judged on. It doesn't matter to the appeals panel if your child is very bright or not - if you're out of catchment, you're at the bottom of the list.

 

So when those pushy parents play the system and present an in-catchment address to the LEA, or send their precious little buttercups to a primary school on the other side of the city that's a feeder for their chosen secondary, they're going up from last in the list to a higher priority and greatly increasing their chances of getting their child into their chosen secondary school.

[999tigger 10]

There appears to be a scenario which you eluded to in an earlier post when you said parents know how to play the 'system'. Those that know how to tackle the appeal process/application process appear to have a greater chance of success whilst those that experience it for the first time or don't know the 'system' appear to be disadvantaged. Those that are aware of educational processes and regulations appear to be able to better challenge information given at appeals whereas other parents would not dream of doing so.

 

So if you learn about what you are meant to be doing and present an effective case then the outcome is likely to be more favourable than if you dont know what you are doing? Isnt that a bit obvious and applicable to most things in life?

 

 

I would be surprised if there arent forums or websites dedicated to getting your child into a school or the appeal process Not sheffield but the same sort of issues. As joker indicated, then if the process is different for primary than secondary then you are better off just collecting the date for the situation relevant to your child at first instance.

[cgksheff 44]

Someone appears to have a chip on their shoulder.

 

The person that knows what they are doing will always have an advantage over someone that doesn't.

 

That doesn't make it 'unfair'.

If you don't know what you are doing, you need to learn, or expect to fail.

[ShefStealth 10]

Fir Vale is actually one of the only areas in Sheffield where a new school is currently being built to address classroom overcrowding issues.

[Bludragonfly 10]

Fir Vale is actually one of the only areas in Sheffield where a new school is currently being built to address classroom overcrowding issues.

 

 

Don't forget that other schools have been expanded - Whiteways and Owler Brook are now 3-11 Primary schools (were age 7-11 and 3-7 schools)

 

The planning application for the new 2-16 school on the Don Valley site goes to panel this week

 

Other schools in Sheffield have also been / are being expanded - I think Hallam and Lydgate are examples

[annbaker 10]

Not quite sure why anyone would be getting het up about going to High Storrs. My daughter went there, wasn't as great from what I could see as it's made out to be. Ok at best but not particularly good for your average kid who isn't going to get As and Bs in our experience. Teaching staff my daughter had were a mixed bag. Some were excellent but some just weren't interested in the kids who weren't at the upper end.

[The Joker 10]

Not quite sure why anyone would be getting het up about going to High Storrs. My daughter went there, wasn't as great from what I could see as it's made out to be. Ok at best but not particularly good for your average kid who isn't going to get As and Bs in our experience. Teaching staff my daughter had were a mixed bag. Some were excellent but some just weren't interested in the kids who weren't at the upper end.

 

Interesting point annbaker, thanks for sharing.

 

Some may argue that your experience above is an indication that High Storrs is pushing its top pupils to get their best exam results possible, as that school is in competition with other high-performing schools in the area such as King Ecgbert, Notre Dame, Tapton, Silverdale, High Storrs and King Edwards.

 

And although exam performance is probably the most important enough reason for out-of-catchment parents to choose a school in the West of the city over the local schools in S4, S5 and S9 (and you can compare the results of those schools I listed above against Fir Vale, Firth Park, Parkwood Academy, Hinde House, Yewlands and Chaucer here) it is not the only reason.

 

From speaking to parents in S4, S5 and S9 who got their kids in the above schools on the West of the city, other reasons will include a better learning environment such as:

 

1) Your child is going to school with other children where both parents work, which (in the minds of the out-of-catchment parents) is a better example than going to a school when only one or neither of the parents work.

 

2) Less disruption in lessons, as other children at the chosen schools will have a value placed on their education and will settle down to lessons quicker.

 

3) Better behaved pupils who will speak properly without using slang language (yes, that was given to me a reason) and less exposure to gang-membership and criminality.