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My way of coping with stress revolves around training/physical activity

 

She also insisted on excessive dose of daily exercise

 

Her obsessive behavior in eating and exercise were exaggerated....

 

 

 

 

Given I'm an neither an obsessive eater or anorexic, I'm not sure why :)

 

However, did check-

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17194559

 

and it was one case (can't conclude anything from one case) of a person who was ill (anorexic) who eat nothing but bananas (unlike me who consumes a variety of healthy plant based food, plus cooked carbs and very small amounts of animal produce) and drank less than 500ml of water/day (recommended levels being typically 3000ml/day).

 

She got Hyperkalemia which has certain symptoms which, were I to start getting (I'm not), I would be concerned about.

 

I would love to get my blood tested again, and, if I do so (unlikely as my GP refuses to do blood tests unless the patient has some symptoms) of course I will pay special attention to my blood potassium levels.

 

However, as I seem to be in by far the best shape of my life, both in terms of being optimally lean and finally having consistent energy levels, I'm not that worried at the moment.

 

In sharp contrast to that are the millions of people not consuming a unprocessed fruit/plant/carb based diet like mine, but instead consuming the typical processed, fat heavy standard UK diet who are suffering from diabetes, obesity, heart disease, cancer etc, but...hey ho...at least they're eating 'normal' 'food', so that's cool :)

 

Incidently, how's your health, and, what do you weigh at the moment?

 

You ignored the hyperdopaminemia. You dont think eating upto 20 bananas daily could be considered obsessive?

 

My health is great, thank you for asking. My diet is balanced. My is weight is fine.

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Originally Posted by Tazoe et al

She also insisted on excessive dose of daily exercise

 

Did she? What's your point?

 

I'm very unlike her in that I insist on a dose of daily exercise that isn't excessive. It means as well as being optimally lean (from my diet) I also have a reasonable amount of muscle. As I've posted in another thread, it also enables me to cope with being aspergic. I feel from your post you're having a bit of a sly dig here, perhaps hinting I'm mentally ill as she was? I'm not, I'm aspergic. Maybe I misunderstood, aspergics often have difficulty understanding what people are meaning.

 

---------- Post added 23-06-2014 at 22:30 ----------

 

You ignored the hyperdopaminemia. You dont think eating upto 20 bananas daily could be considered obsessive?

 

My health is great, thank you for asking. My diet is balanced. My is weight is fine.

 

Having tackled the Hyperkalemia and found it didn't apply to me, I kind of assumed the hyperdopaminemia may also be irrelevant- if you think otherwise, then go for it- make your point.

 

What do you mean by 'balanced' in the context of diet. Glad you think your weight is fine- what is it though? (in stones or kilos).

 

I'm 11 stone- when I was carrying excess fat I was 13 stone. What weight are you?

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Given I'm an neither an obsessive eater or anorexic, I'm not sure why :)

 

However, did check-

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17194559

 

and it was one case (can't conclude anything from one case) of a person who was ill (anorexic) who eat nothing but bananas (unlike me who consumes a variety of healthy plant based food, plus cooked carbs and very small amounts of animal produce) and drank less than 500ml of water/day (recommended levels being typically 3000ml/day).

 

She got Hyperkalemia which has certain symptoms which, were I to start getting (I'm not), I would be concerned about.

 

I would love to get my blood tested again, and, if I do so (unlikely as my GP refuses to do blood tests unless the patient has some symptoms) of course I will pay special attention to my blood potassium levels.

 

However, as I seem to be in by far the best shape of my life, both in terms of being optimally lean and finally having consistent energy levels, I'm not that worried at the moment.

 

In sharp contrast to that are the millions of people not consuming a unprocessed fruit/plant/carb based diet like mine, but instead consuming the typical processed, fat heavy standard UK diet who are suffering from diabetes, obesity, heart disease, cancer etc, but...hey ho...at least they're eating 'normal' 'food', so that's cool :)

 

Incidently, how's your health, and, what do you weigh at the moment?

 

---------- Post added 23-06-2014 at 19:07 ----------

 

Enjoy your food- hope you also enjoy the consequences when you hit your fifty's, sadly, many in the west don't :(

 

 

I never said they were- I said that in the huge collection of individuals who are company CEOs, many were fat (and ill). Feel free to survey the lot of them and present the results here.

 

Maybe also watch the recent documentary 'fat, sick and nearly dead' I believe the subject of that was a CEO? He was obese and very ill, until he acheived health and leanness by living off only fruit/vegetable juice for 6 months.

 

---------- Post added 23-06-2014 at 19:12 ----------

 

Angiogram?

 

This is interesting. I was under the impression that pretty much all adults in the west on the standard processed food diet had some degree of arterial clogging.

 

How old are you, and, how would you describe your diet? I'm always keen to check out peoples results who don't match my conceptions of nutrition.

 

Yes, that's it.

The consultant was delighted with the result, but of course it was no answer to what's wrong with my heart, which is still undiagnosed. I have resting angina (which is very painful and worrying) and arrythmia.

I'm 61 and eat a healthy diet. I enjoy salads and vegetables, drink plenty of water and apart from the occasional bacon sandwich (my only weakness) I'm pretty much vegetarian. I also have a dodgy stomach and digestive system which means I have to be careful with what and how I eat. I don't smoke, only drink occasionally but find exercise difficult due to ME and arthritis so I just walk the dog when I can. I am overweight but a lot of that is boobs (top heavy) and no amount of dieting will shift it.

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Yes, that's it.

The consultant was delighted with the result, but of course it was no answer to what's wrong with my heart, which is still undiagnosed. I have resting angina (which is very painful and worrying) and arrythmia.

I'm 61 and eat a healthy diet. I enjoy salads and vegetables, drink plenty of water and apart from the occasional bacon sandwich (my only weakness) I'm pretty much vegetarian. I also have a dodgy stomach and digestive system which means I have to be careful with what and how I eat. I don't smoke, only drink occasionally but find exercise difficult due to ME and arthritis so I just walk the dog when I can. I am overweight but a lot of that is boobs (top heavy) and no amount of dieting will shift it.

 

Good, a testament to the health value of plant strong diets :)

 

I don't know if you supplement b12? Here's a video you may be interested in, by a qualified medical professional who promotes vegan low fat diet, commenting on recent studies indicating equal mortality rates for vegans, vegetarians and meat eaters.

 

That goes against the many studies he's promoted showing that vegan/veggie eating has positive health effects and in this video he's giving his analysis of how that contradictory result has arisen, and, more important, what vegans/veggies can do to counter it.

 

 

Basically it's about omega oils and B12.

 

One other thing I'd say, myself knowing vegetarians who aren't that healthy, and vegans who quit for health reasons, is that there's a big difference between a vegan diet of unprocessed plant foods (very low fat) and one of heavily processed plant foods (tend to be high fat).

 

So I'd suggest any vegan/vegetarian not getting optimal weight and health results, to look into the fat issue, as well as b12.

 

Much as I've come to believe in the benefits of a raw unprocessed fruit based diet (as I've personally been on it for 6 months and experienced very good results), I do think it highly likely that a unprocessed cooked plant based diet will likely give similar results, and, be considerably easier for many to implement.

 

---------- Post added 24-06-2014 at 16:46 ----------

 

Further to the above. It's clear that it's possible to be vegetarian and overweight. I believe that it's due to the fact that as vegetariainism become more common, a market in processed vegetarian foods blossumed- a pizza is high fat whether it's meat based or vegetarian.

 

Similarly, now veganism is going mainstream, there are more vegan processed foods available, and, I predict, that we'll now start seeing more overweight vegans.

 

I do not believe that it is possible to be overweight on a vegan/plant based diet of unprocessed plant foods, as they are naturally very low in fat. (This is not to be confused with processed low-fat foods, which I wouldn't touch with a bargepole).

 

---------- Post added 24-06-2014 at 16:49 ----------

 

I am overweight but a lot of that is boobs (top heavy) and no amount of dieting will shift it.

 

We should meet :)

Edited by onewheeldave

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Good, a testament to the health value of plant strong diets :)

 

I don't know if you supplement b12? Here's a video you may be interested in, by a qualified medical professional who promotes vegan low fat diet, commenting on recent studies indicating equal mortality rates for vegans, vegetarians and meat eaters.

 

That goes against the many studies he's promoted showing that vegan/veggie eating has positive health effects and in this video he's giving his analysis of how that contradictory result has arisen, and, more important, what vegans/veggies can do to counter it.

 

 

Basically it's about omega oils and B12.

 

One other thing I'd say, myself knowing vegetarians who aren't that healthy, and vegans who quit for health reasons, is that there's a big difference between a vegan diet of unprocessed plant foods (very low fat) and one of heavily processed plant foods (tend to be high fat).

 

So I'd suggest any vegan/vegetarian not getting optimal weight and health results, to look into the fat issue, as well as b12.

 

Much as I've come to believe in the benefits of a raw unprocessed fruit based diet (as I've personally been on it for 6 months and experienced very good results), I do think it highly likely that a unprocessed cooked plant based diet will likely give similar results, and, be considerably easier for many to implement.

 

---------- Post added 24-06-2014 at 16:46 ----------

 

Further to the above. It's clear that it's possible to be vegetarian and overweight. I believe that it's due to the fact that as vegetariainism become more common, a market in processed vegetarian foods blossumed- a pizza is high fat whether it's meat based or vegetarian.

 

Similarly, now veganism is going mainstream, there are more vegan processed foods available, and, I predict, that we'll now start seeing more overweight vegans.

 

I do not believe that it is possible to be overweight on a vegan/plant based diet of unprocessed plant foods, as they are naturally very low in fat. (This is not to be confused with processed low-fat foods, which I wouldn't touch with a bargepole).

 

---------- Post added 24-06-2014 at 16:49 ----------

 

 

We should meet :)

 

:hihi: They're the bane of my life mate. Terrific when you're twenty, but a pain (literally) when you're sixty, but you've made my day.

Oh the memories....

 

Anyway, an interesting post. I do take supplements every day; a multivitamin, Omega 3, Cod liver oil, glucosomine, and magnesium and co-enzyme Q10 for the ME, plus Vitamin D in winter. I also make a point of getting out in the garden for at least half an hour every day even if the weather is poor. I also try to meditate every day.

 

I had a nasty accident in 2007 followed by a horrendous virus which put me in bed for 3 months and from which I've never really recovered. It affected my heart and brought on the ME.

It made me slow down and smell the flowers, and start taking a real interest in proper diet and wellbeing, so a blessing in disguise in some ways.

 

I might try the B12 to see if it increases my energy levels which are my main problem.

Edited by Anna B

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Whoa, I just saw b12!

 

Let's get this b12 thing sorted - because now there is new 'UK' research to prove what is going on.

 

Vitamin b12 is a compound essential to life. It's a co-enzyme in several metabolic pathways which ensure that certain processes take place including DNA synthesis and nerve remyelination.

 

It is NOT a blood condition which is 'quickly and easily treated.'

They've been getting it back to front.

 

If you don't get enough b12 (through a malabsorption issue - you don't have to test positive for pernicious anaemia for b12 deficiency to be 'important.') then the metabolic pathways are disrupted and certain metabolic processes cannot take place. This results in neurological (nerve)or psychological or haematological problems.

 

The initial symptoms usually start with fatigue/depression and usually go on to follow one of either of the two main pathways, nerve damage or psychological damage.

The problems come in stages; so you might have lethargy, forgetfulness, pins and needles and a myriad other things but in the earlier stages most are reversible if you get the 'correct' treatment.

Then you start to get balance issues, muscle weakness and pain, vision issues (usually deterioration that's a little too quick) temperature disregulation. Many of these too may be reversible with the 'right' treatment.

Then it gets worse, and balance becomes a more serious problem, there might be a constant feeling of being cold, lack of comprehension skills, extreme blurring of vision, temper flare ups, extreme weakness, muscle disfunction, muscle fibrillations, incontinence issues. Down the psychological route by this point the individual possibly has clearly identifiable dementia or other psychiatric/cognitive issues. This is the point when many symptoms will stop being reversible no matter how much treatment they get.

The end stage is 'usually' the point where the anaemia appears (but this is not always the case - it can appear earlier, it may never appear) and the patient moves into the stage of paralysis, double incontinence, incapacitated.

 

And the doctors thought it started with anaemia - and the neurological symptoms followed it.

There are currently rumblings in the scientific community because the serum b12 test - which has, by the UK team, been shown to be unreliable (at best) because it isn't picking up all these neuro problems, it is only identifying how much b12 is in the blood.

 

So, now nurses know why all those patients with b12 deficiency keep coming back to say their symptoms are returning before their next jab (and then nurses put their blood levels right - no correlation whatsoever to what is happening at cellular level)

And why people are having so much trouble getting an initial diagnosis and being sent off having emotional problems, depression, fatigue, or simply being accused of being 'frequent flyers.'

Doctors don't recognise the symptoms because they are looking for a blood condition, and the serum b12 test couldn't pick up a whore in a brothel!

 

You can't read the whole of the research paper unless you are a member but you can see the abstract and the Responses section from doctors all over the world in the BMJ online. It's titled Vitamin B12 Deficiency, by Hunt. 4th September 2014.

 

Oh, and when it comes to hearts and strokes. B12, on one of the pathways, enables homocysteine to be converted. If it isn't it builds up and can result in heart attacks and strokes. - That's an aside as to what b12 deficiency does directly.

 

Do you feel better now you know you quite likely aren't 'imagining' your symptoms.

 

Energy booster indeed. Pah!

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Well if you want to know all about what humans have had in their diet for millions of years its not looking at the experts, its what bought us into the modern world, making it all possible.

 

Anthropological studies of indigenous populations, poor people who still practice hunting a gathering, how humanity lived for at least 2.5 million yeas, shows, and our dental arrangement demonstrates we are a plant eating creature, that became omnivores. In such cultures meat is something to party over, its hard to catch, hard to transport, and its a dangerous practice competing with other carnivores.

 

If you think you are a meat eater, then try a raw meat diet? We have to cook it to break it down, sort of predigest it, so we can digest it.

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No, I don't want to know.

 

I thought this thread was about mental health? I put up a post to help people and you bounce it out with some rubbish.

It's not about vegetarians - they do what they want.

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To me mental health is a product of urbanisation, and does not happen or exist in hunter gatherer groups thus is a relatively recent construct.

 

It is not something one can catch from someone else therefore not contagious but can be copied.

 

Mental health is therefore an individual construct, created by the individual for the individual, but not necessarily a conscious decision like making a cup of tea. People that suffered from shell shock are NOT in a war environment, its a construct,.

 

So people can construct things in their minds that appear real to them, and it appears lots of people are susceptible to this condition. In the middle ages people's construct was the devil, evil, which was a very frightening thing, and was thought to be real, so constructs can it seem can change shape over time, but the condition regardless of the trigger, appears to be more constant.

 

Many people feel insecure within themselves, and thus construct a pathway of miseries which takes them forever deeper and deeper into themselves. Once within, separated from the external environment, it can influence how one interacts with the external world

thus becoming isolated. A bit like being lonely in crowd.

 

Getting people out of this self imposed obsessive state or construct is another matter. Psychologists and Psychiatrists have grappled with this problem for a very long time, and every decade or so magically manufacture possible cures, which some of the afflicted are influenced by, and feel relieved. Thus one can compare the hight priests of modern medial practices to the religious practices of times before, where equal amount of cures, potions and chanting apparently cured the afflicted.

 

So it appears in the bigger picture to be a delusional state, with new placebo pills and remedies to help the less or shallower of the deluded. It is everyone right to practice whatever religion they wish, and its everyone right to confuse and delude themselves however they wish. The state which pays for treating such unfortunates since THatcher believes car in the community was the answer. It was a financial answer as they tended to spill out on the streets, and mainly ended up in prison, the new mad house.

 

We live in a culture that does not care about each other, its selfish, profit and greed orientated where the individual is as we know expendable. The UK is brilliant at killing through neglect, as it a cheaper option than real care, and with rising suicides the treasury is content at the trend.

 

We are taught through the tabloids and political speeches that lots of people are not to be trusted, those on benefits are a favourite scape goat. Thus we are being trained to becomes less sensitive, less caring, more concerned with self gratifications which does not bode well for the mentally deluded, the poor, the struggling, the sick and the ill.

 

Nothing we say can be done, and if we demonstrate the police, are trained to crack heads, thus increasing the pressure on the NHS budgets. We have no voice, we are not listened to, we are ignored by the political elite, who are told by their masters in the CITY OF LONDON what the policies are, and where social engineering should take place and in what form.

 

 

Enjoy!

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What are you on about - do you know anything about biochemistry and metabolics pathways?

There is a good article on the web by a psychiatrist who pointed to a research article where b12 deficiency was the cause and not 'in the mind.' But I can remember her name Brolin Dr Kate ... I'll get back if I find it.

 

You've got to stop trivialising other people's issues - whatever mental health means to you, is a personal opinion - based on, nothing.

 

This research is probably the biggest issue that the UK has come across in decades. It's hightlighting that psychological problems and neurological problems are because of a lack of b12 - an essential micronutrient. Unless you are also going to try and convince everybody that the neurological damage is imaginary too?

Dementia - you probably think that is imaginary, yes? Because that's what you are saying in your last post comparative to what is going on.

 

You clearly have an agenda - you haven't looked at the research, you haven't commented on it.

You are just throwing rubbish out again presumably because you like the sound of your own voice.

Please, feel free to go look at the research.

 

Brogan! Dr Kelly Brogan - she's got a good case study on her site. But they have been missing these cases all over because they weren't understanding what damage the deficiency did.

Edited by Fidgety
I remembered!

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Norman Lamb MP, Minister for Social Care thinks there should be 'Parity of Esteem' between mental health and physical health.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/achieving-parity-of-esteem-between-mental-and-physical-health

 

Warm words indeed, but how about parity of funding?

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To be honest I don't think they will ever throw money at it because it's not an illness which attracts any kind of sympathy really. And you can't see the damage.

B12 injections are 50p. It's not like they would be risking a lot giving a whole bunch of people megadoses to see if it helped...

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