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You do realise the barbarism that is FGM is not part of sharia don't you?

 

No. It rather depends what you are reading and if westerners were the intended target. As we all know in the Quran the followers are instructed, some would say even encouraged to do so, when it suits their purpose to lie to and decieve all people who are not followers.

 

So sadly it appears you are very wrong. It is compulsory for all muslims, male and female, to have their genitals mutilated, whether or not they consent. There is a lot of confirmation of this on the net from a variety of sources. They even have FGM parties here in the UK the cutter being flown in and then quickly out again to avoid prosecution, of which to date there has been only one here and one in the US. The lack of prosecutions is partly due to the laxity of some health professionals or so we are led to believe.

 

 

Abd al-Rahman Al-Adawi, al-Azhar Professor, writing in 1989, noted that female circumcision is makrumah—a meritorious action. He further claimed the procedure helped the woman,

remain shy and virtuous. In the Orient, where the climate is hot, a girl gets easily aroused if she is not circumcised. It makes her shameless and prey to her sexual instincts except those to whom Allah shows compassion. [from Al-khitan, ra’y al-din wal-‘ilm fi khitan al-awlad wal-banat, 1989, pp 81-2, translated
]

The classical Iraqi jurist Ibn Mawdud al-Musili (d. 1284), in his major Islamic law treatise [Al-ikhtiyar, vol. 4, p. 167, translated here] declared,

If a region stops, of common agreement, to practice male and female circumcision, the chief of the state declares war [jihad] against that region because circumcision is a part of the rituals of Islam and its specificities

Former Al-Azhar Grand Imam Jad al-Haq also insisted repeatedly (twice in a 1981 fatwa, and three times in a fatwa published during 1994; [see Sami A. Aldeeb Abu-Sahlieh, Male and Female Circumcision—Religious, medical, social, and legal debate, 2012, p. 173]) that the attempt to prevent female (or male) circumcision was grounds for waging jihad against those renouncing and abrogating the procedures. The October 1994 issue of the magazine Al-Azhar included a booklet distributed as a free appendix. The booklet contained Grand Imam al-Haq’s fatwa whose main elements had already been published in 1981. In this “updated” 1994 fatwa, al-Haq affirmed the call for jihad thrice, reiterating verbatim the opinion of the 13th century jurist al-Musili, and adding his own gloss about the obligatory nature of female and male circumcision (translation, p. 347),

If a region stops, of common agreement, to practice male and female circumcision, the chief of the state declares war [jihad] against that region because circumcision is a part of the rituals of Islam and its specificities.
This means that male and female circumcisions are obligatory.

 

 

So I am guessing that whoever told you you that Genital Mutilation, male or female, is not part of shari'a was wrong.. for whatever reason.

 

 

........................................................................................................................................................................................

 

 

 

 

I saw a wonderfully pertinent comment on Facebook, this morning. it reads:-

 

"People can be taught how to HATE

people can be taught how to SPELL...

 

But apparently, it's one or the other"

 

"Pertinent"? How so so? It would appear that there are many people who contradict that comment.

 

Luckily neither apply to me I know I can't spell, not that there is such a thing as correct spelling only conventially accepted spelling, and I won't waste my energy on hate.

.

.

Edited by Tommo68
spelling....get us a spell checker please

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[/b][/i]

 

No. It rather depends what you are reading and if westerners were the intended target. As we all know in the Quran the followers are instructed, some would say even encouraged to do so, when it suits their purpose to lie to and decieve all people who are not followers.

 

<Snip a load of ranty off topic stuff>

.

.

 

How on Earth does your contribution relate to the topic of this thread.

 

Are you trying to justify the actions of the BM, or do you just not understand how threads work?

Edited by sibon

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What's religion got to do with immigration? Which religions don't you like?

 

dont like any religion. they all the same in one way or another

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dont like any religion. they all the same in one way or another

 

Do you think you have the right to intimidate people at their place of worship?

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It is compulsory for all muslims, male and female, to have their genitals mutilated, whether or not they consent. There is a lot of confirmation of this on the net from a variety of sources.

 

Has it not occurred to you that if it really were compulsory for them then Islam would die out within a few decades? Thought not.

 

As for your confirmation on the net, google 2 and 2 make 5 and you get 1,240,000,000 results.

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Tommo. The second chap you quote, was 6 centuries after the prophet, so it's not Even a hadeeth, let alone a weak one. The other was 1989.

 

Firstly, I've never seen an FGM party.

 

Secondly, FGM as I have said umpteen times on this and other threads that were derailed, is about patriarchal control of female sexuality, and contradicts the Islamic teachings that a woman has the right to receive pleasure in lovemaking.

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t is compulsory for all muslims, male and female, to have their genitals mutilated, whether or not they consent.

 

It absolutely isn't. You're talking utter rubbish.

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Tommo. The second chap you quote, was 6 centuries after the prophet, so it's not Even a hadeeth, let alone a weak one. The other was 1989.

 

Firstly, I've never seen an FGM party.

 

Secondly, FGM as I have said umpteen times on this and other threads that were derailed, is about patriarchal control of female sexuality, and contradicts the Islamic teachings that a woman has the right to receive pleasure in lovemaking.

 

I give up on you plain talker it would not surprise me if you were president of a flat earth society.

 

Read the quote again the message was confirmed in 2012 I did highlight the date.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/may/06/female-genital-mutilation-parties-uk-mps

 

http://answering-islam.org/Sharia/fem_circumcision.html

 

 

 

There are as they say none so blind as those that won't see.

.

.

 

---------- Post added 18-06-2014 at 18:50 ----------

 

Has it not occurred to you that if it really were compulsory for them then Islam would die out within a few decades? Thought not.

 

As for your confirmation on the net, google 2 and 2 make 5 and you get 1,240,000,000 results.

 

I think you have misunderstood the meaning of genital mutilation, having been on the receiving end of this butchery does not prevent a woman becoming pregnant. Male circumcision, compulsory or otherwise does not usually prevent men from getting women pregnant. So of course they would not have died out. That their numbers increase daily is evidence enough of that.

 

I'm surprised at you LeMaquis you are usually well informed.

 

As for your google comment, I only mentioned that so he might have searched and found confirmation for himself that for muslims genital mutilation is compulsory because I could not be bothered to do it for him.

.

.

 

---------- Post added 18-06-2014 at 19:01 ----------

 

It absolutely isn't. You're talking utter rubbish.

 

But no evidence to the contrary even offered.

 

"You're talking utter rubbish" Hardly constitutes an informed response.

 

We are, I thought, supposed discuss things in forums not just slag each other off.

 

I stand by what I said; it is compulsory for all followers of islam to be circumcised only the amount of flesh removed and the extent of the physical, never mind psychological, damage is very different for men and women.

.

.

 

---------- Post added 18-06-2014 at 19:13 ----------

 

How on Earth does your contribution relate to the topic of this thread.

 

Are you trying to justify the actions of the BM, or do you just not understand how threads work?

 

A I was responding to a post

B I fully support the right of any British person to air their political views in the UK, regardless of my feeling about those views.

 

What I really object to is people that would silence others because they don't agree with their views. That kind of politcal extremism is reminiscent of both hitler's and stalin's regimes.

 

In the UK it does appear to be only the extreme left that tries to silence the extreme right.

 

But whoever is doing it to whoever for whatever reasons its just plain wrong.

.

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[/b][/i]

 

No. It rather depends what you are reading and if westerners were the intended target. As we all know in the Quran the followers are instructed, some would say even encouraged to do so, when it suits their purpose to lie to and decieve all people who are not followers.

 

So sadly it appears you are very wrong. It is compulsory for all muslims, male and female, to have their genitals mutilated, whether or not they consent. There is a lot of confirmation of this on the net from a variety of sources. They even have FGM parties here in the UK the cutter being flown in and then quickly out again to avoid prosecution, of which to date there has been only one here and one in the US. The lack of prosecutions is partly due to the laxity of some health professionals or so we are led to believe.

 

 

Abd al-Rahman Al-Adawi, al-Azhar Professor, writing in 1989, noted that female circumcision is makrumah—a meritorious action. He further claimed the procedure helped the woman,

remain shy and virtuous. In the Orient, where the climate is hot, a girl gets easily aroused if she is not circumcised. It makes her shameless and prey to her sexual instincts except those to whom Allah shows compassion. [from Al-khitan, ra’y al-din wal-‘ilm fi khitan al-awlad wal-banat, 1989, pp 81-2, translated
]

The classical Iraqi jurist Ibn Mawdud al-Musili (d. 1284), in his major Islamic law treatise [Al-ikhtiyar, vol. 4, p. 167, translated here] declared,

If a region stops, of common agreement, to practice male and female circumcision, the chief of the state declares war [jihad] against that region because circumcision is a part of the rituals of Islam and its specificities

Former Al-Azhar Grand Imam Jad al-Haq also insisted repeatedly (twice in a 1981 fatwa, and three times in a fatwa published during 1994; [see Sami A. Aldeeb Abu-Sahlieh, Male and Female Circumcision—Religious, medical, social, and legal debate, 2012, p. 173]) that the attempt to prevent female (or male) circumcision was grounds for waging jihad against those renouncing and abrogating the procedures. The October 1994 issue of the magazine Al-Azhar included a booklet distributed as a free appendix. The booklet contained Grand Imam al-Haq’s fatwa whose main elements had already been published in 1981. In this “updated” 1994 fatwa, al-Haq affirmed the call for jihad thrice, reiterating verbatim the opinion of the 13th century jurist al-Musili, and adding his own gloss about the obligatory nature of female and male circumcision (translation, p. 347),

If a region stops, of common agreement, to practice male and female circumcision, the chief of the state declares war [jihad] against that region because circumcision is a part of the rituals of Islam and its specificities.
This means that male and female circumcisions are obligatory.

 

 

So I am guessing that whoever told you you that Genital Mutilation, male or female, is not part of shari'a was wrong.. for whatever reason.

 

 

........................................................................................................................................................................................

 

 

 

 

 

"Pertinent"? How so so? It would appear that there are many people who contradict that comment.

 

Luckily neither apply to me I know I can't spell, not that there is such a thing as correct spelling only conventially accepted spelling, and I won't waste my energy on hate.

.

.

 

You ever read the bible? New or old. Or googled some Christian extremists? Why are you quoting individuals from 30years ago in support of your argument?

 

Plus how is there possibly a mathematical probability to support your argument as you suggested earlier?

 

It's crazy what you're saying - have an hour, thinking about the opposing arguments, regardless of what you currently think, and see if you still believe what you're writing is in any way rational.

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Who gives a s**t where you were born, people have always moved around.

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You ever read the bible? New or old.

Yes the quran, the talmud and several other holy books and religious/political doctrines.

 

Or googled some Christian extremists? Why are you quoting individuals from 30years ago in support of your argument?

The quote I ave was reaffirmed in 2012. read the quote again.

 

But if that is too difficult for you perhaps this will help

 

1981-JAN-29: The Great Sheikh of Al-Azhar (the most famous University of the Islamic World) stated that parents must follow the lessons of Mohammed and not listen to medical authorities because the latter often change their minds. Parents must do their duty and have their daughters circumcised.

 

 

 

Plus how is there possibly a mathematical probability to support your argument as you suggested earlier?

 

I did not say they was a mathematical probability read my post if you ae going to try to take it apart. I said it was a mathematical inevitability. Look at the numbers and work it out for yourself particularly birth rates seeing as you do not want to accept the interpretation of others.

 

It's crazy what you're saying - have an hour, thinking about the opposing arguments, regardless of what you currently think, and see if you still believe what you're writing is in any way rational.

 

Of course I am absolutely confident that my belief is rational and is the result of long deliberation. Still its encouraging to think that if you are able to do some simple maths you estimate it will only take you an hour to come to the sam econclusions as many others have already done.

.

.

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Yes the quran, the talmud and several other holy books and religious/political doctrines.

 

 

The quote I ave was reaffirmed in 2012. read the quote again.

 

But if that is too difficult for you perhaps this will help

 

1981-JAN-29: The Great Sheikh of Al-Azhar (the most famous University of the Islamic World) stated that parents must follow the lessons of Mohammed and not listen to medical authorities because the latter often change their minds. Parents must do their duty and have their daughters circumcised.

 

 

 

 

 

I did not say they was a mathematical probability read my post if you ae going to try to take it apart. I said it was a mathematical inevitability. Look at the numbers and work it out for yourself particularly birth rates seeing as you do not want to accept the interpretation of others.

 

 

 

Of course I am absolutely confident that my belief is rational and is the result of long deliberation. Still its encouraging to think that if you are able to do some simple maths you estimate it will only take you an hour to come to the sam econclusions as many others have already done.

.

.

 

Have you read the thread title?

 

Or the Forum Rules?

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