Future of train services in the north - government consultation

[DnAuK 10]

We are told that the reason the first train from Sheffield to Lincoln on a Sunday isn't until the afternoon is because Network Rail won't open the signal boxes. Same as the Peterborough to Lincoln via Spalding/Sleaford line.

 

---------- Post added 20-01-2015 at 07:34 ----------

 

 

Sheffield-Manchester used to be a 24hr service on weekdays but other than on a Friday night in one direction only the passenger numbers were low and the late night service was cut back.

 

Is there really sufficient demand to justify Sheffield trains running later? Sheffield couldn't even muster enough late night demand to make night buses viable, never mind trains.

 

The problem is that this argument is self-perpetuating. People may well say that there aren't enough people wanting to travel between the Sheffield and the surrounding townships at night. But that is because it is currently impossible to do so. If a late night reliable link was established more people would travel into the ciities, especially for such things as concerts and theatre which simply aren't avaialble in the surrounding townships. Therefore Sheffield would benefit by having more late night trade, and the surrounding townships would benefit by more people wanting to live in them in the knowledge they could easily travel between.

 

If you don't believe me take a look at the reasons the head of Milton Keynes development gave for their status of 'fastest growing town' - namely that they were ideally placed between London-Birmingham! And think how that could be tranlasted to places like Barnsley (ideally placed between Sheffield-Leeds and Sheffield-Manchester, three of England's biggest cities). The difference is that someone had the foresight to develop the infrastructure more than 50 miles outside London and they are now reaping the benefits. Whereas in Yorkshire people just claim 'there will not be enough demand' to put on a decent service between major cities less than 40 miles apart. Rubbish.

[swordfish1 10]

We are told that the reason the first train from Sheffield to Lincoln on a Sunday isn't until the afternoon is because Network Rail won't open the signal boxes. Same as the Peterborough to Lincoln via Spalding/Sleaford line.

 

---------- Post added 20-01-2015 at 07:34 ----------

 

 

 

Isn't the latter controlled by Lincoln SCC, a 24 hour box?

(I'm not sure, just what I thought)

[ShefStealth 10]

Opinion piece article on BBC News website about Pacer Trains suggesting that they may be revamped and continue running until 2032.

 

Pacer trains may 'still have role' in North of England - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-31164796

 

And so it seems the reports of the death of the Pacer may be somewhat exaggerated.

 

They will fall foul of disability discrimination laws in 2020, but it seems there may even be plans to get round that.

 

The RMT union believes they will be modified and could still be in service not only into the 2020s, but as late as 2032.

 

And they also claim that their replacements could be old London Underground trains.

 

The union's general secretary Mick Cash said: "We now know that the pledges to replace the clapped out Pacers has been exposed as nothing but hot air as the Government strategy for rail across the North unravels before their eyes and that they are also being forced to consider replacing one lash up with another."

 

This alongside the news that BBC Look North broke on Friday evening, that the electrification of TPE North between Manchester and Leeds/York is running behind schedule - it's nice to see how much the ORR values the North, eh?

[dutch 68]

A bus is more comfortable than a pacer.

If this electrical trains only is such a big issue, then what about all English city buses, are they fine to be non electrical?.

When I lived in Toronto in eighties, loads of buses ran on electricity, still on a hot summer day you see a big black cloud of pollution hanging over the city.

Edited February 8, 2015 by dutch

[david30 10]

I travel from Sheffield to Doncaster Mon-Fri for work and back. What frustrates me more than anything else is that between 17:00 and 17:30 there are 2 pacer trains taking 40mins to get to Sheffield but between 17:30 and 18:00 you have 3 trains that take between 22 and 30mins. On most days I stay late on at work just so I can get the quicker train. What I would like to see is more Cross Country Service mixing up their services using Doncaster more instead of always going through Wakefield Westgate. Currently the only Cross Country that runs through Doncaster (to my knowledge) is the Newcastle-Reading/Guildford train.

It feels like a treat using this service instead as you're in Sheffield or Doncaster in 20mins.

[Andy C 86]

Well, tomorrow - 1st April - the new rail franchises takeover.

 

Northern Rail - a Serco Abellio joint venture - is replaced by Arriva Rail North, t/a Northern Railway - http://www.northernrailway.co.uk.

 

First Transpennine Express, a joint venture between First and Keolis, becomes Transpennine Express by First. http://www.tpexpress.co.uk.

[dutch 68]

Well, tomorrow - 1st April - the new rail franchises takeover.

 

Northern Rail - a Serco Abellio joint venture - is replaced by Arriva Rail North, t/a Northern Railway - http://www.northernrailway.co.uk.

 

First Transpennine Express, a joint venture between First and Keolis, becomes Transpennine Express by First. http://www.tpexpress.co.uk.

 

Does this mean they will start using some better rolling stock?

 

If you just change the name but stay in the same old trains it has little meaning.

[biotechpete 10]

Does this mean they will start using some better rolling stock?

 

If you just change the name but stay in the same old trains it has little meaning.

 

From what I understand, in the short term the rolling stock will get worse. The better trains leased by the old northern franchise are being moved down south and arriva northern, while promising new trains won't actually provide them for 2-3 years.

[dutch 68]

From what I understand, in the short term the rolling stock will get worse. The better trains leased by the old northern franchise are being moved down south and arriva northern, while promising new trains won't actually provide them for 2-3 years.

 

A promise has little meaning in UK, in Netherlands companies and politicians can get fined and even jail terms for making false meaningless promises just for the fun of it.

 

They should start using pump trolleys down south to reduce obesity.

 

---------- Post added 01-04-2016 at 09:09 ----------

 

Just read somewhere contracts for new normal trains to replace the old ones have been signed?

Supposed to go up to 100 mph with usb sockets wifi aircon. Everything except a cocktail bar.

[smiggs 10]

From what I understand, in the short term the rolling stock will get worse. The better trains leased by the old northern franchise are being moved down south and arriva northern, while promising new trains won't actually provide them for 2-3 years.

 

From a South Yorkshire perspective it would difficult to get worse, perhaps open wagons from the freight service would be a good fit?

[spilldig 188]

I was stopped at Sheffield central station yesterday and asked if I would answer a survey on HS2. I replied as usual, which is, as long as it doesn't involve name,phone numbers,address or collecting bowl,then yes. All seemed OK so I filled in the survey, but the one crucial question, to me anyway, would you prefer it to run here or Meadowhall wasn't on his survey ?

[smiggs 10]

I travel from Sheffield to Doncaster Mon-Fri for work and back. What frustrates me more than anything else is that between 17:00 and 17:30 there are 2 pacer trains taking 40mins to get to Sheffield but between 17:30 and 18:00 you have 3 trains that take between 22 and 30mins. On most days I stay late on at work just so I can get the quicker train. What I would like to see is more Cross Country Service mixing up their services using Doncaster more instead of always going through Wakefield Westgate. Currently the only Cross Country that runs through Doncaster (to my knowledge) is the Newcastle-Reading/Guildford train.

It feels like a treat using this service instead as you're in Sheffield or Doncaster in 20mins.

 

I do the exact same journey, the reason they do this is because there is no over taking on the line. Fast trains would get stuck behind stoppers if they were sprinkled together. The Cross Country service already has hold ups timetabled into it's journey the TPE service is the quickest and that stops at Meadowhall.

 

Additionally I don't think Cross Country will give up stopping at Leeds to go to Doncaster - on a night the last train does in a loop. A more viable option would be for East Midlands to extend their service up to Doncaster or even further north utilising the East Coast line.