Future of train services in the north - government consultation

[Uptowngirl 10]

Not really, the DfT have wanted to do this for years, but it keeps getting rejected at the consultation stage.

 

 

 

But it will equally improve journey times for people from Rotherham / Barnsley.

 

It certainly will. When the HS3 gets off the ground it will be possible to get to Manchester quicker from Rotherham than Sheffield.

[alternageek 10]

Mod Note:

 

Threads merged and a reminder that trolling others is not appropriate forum behaviour.

 

 

Thanks

[smiggs 10]

TPE services will run to Hull rather than Cleethorpes so Sheffield / Meadowhall/ Doncaster to Scunthorpe, Grimsby and Cleethorpes will see journey times increase dramatically and with the loss of nearly half the trains. The services will be replaced by slow, all stop bus like-Pacer derivatives.

 

Presumably the service will be faster to Hull so for Sheffield this is simply a trade off. I'd argue we should have faster trains to Hull regardless...

[Annie Bynnol 612]

Presumably the service will be faster to Hull so for Sheffield this is simply a trade off. I'd argue we should have faster trains to Hull regardless...

 

Be careful what you wish for.

There is no mention of an increase in speed in the consultation and so speed is unlikely to increase.

Any enhancements to this service (and there are none mentioned) would be temporary as Selby Hull electrification is a favourite for CP6 and any Manchester Airport service would then be via Leeds. This would make the Sheffield Hull service another candidate for local bone shakers

Edited June 28, 2014 by Annie Bynnol

[smiggs 10]

Be careful what you wish for.

There is no mention of an increase in speed in the consultation and so speed is unlikely to increase.

Any enhancements to this service (and there are none mentioned) would be temporary as Selby Hull electrification is a favourite for CP6 and any Manchester Airport service would then be via Leeds. This would make the Sheffield Hull service another candidate for local bone shakers

 

The tp and northern trains run the same route with the same stops between Doncaster and Sheffield, the TP service is 10 minutes quicker. If they wanted a Manchester Airport service from Hull, they would just extend the existing Manchester service in fact they used to have that but took it away. There are already stoppers running the route between Hull and Sheffield sometimes they use the "bone shakers" it's not a pleasant experience but the consultation says they will get rid of them in the next franchise period, but not quick enough for my liking they're a joke!

[Annie Bynnol 612]

The tp and northern trains run the same route with the same stops between Doncaster and Sheffield, the TP service is 10 minutes quicker. If they wanted a Manchester Airport service from Hull, they would just extend the existing Manchester service in fact they used to have that but took it away. There are already stoppers running the route between Hull and Sheffield sometimes they use the "bone shakers" it's not a pleasant experience but the consultation says they will get rid of them in the next franchise period, but not quick enough for my liking they're a joke!

 

Normally TPE trains do not follow the same route or call at the same stations (Meadowhall excepted) as Northern on their route between Sheffield and Doncaster.

 

As there will be no wires between Selby and Hull, all trans Pennine services to Hull via Leeds services would have to be diesel.

The point of the re routing via Sheffield and Goole is to maximise stock usage so avoiding using diesel on electrified lines as much as possible.

By 2019 the "boneshakers" will not meet self imposed access rules- however they will not be life expired and Governments can change the rules.

[Andy C 86]

Sheffield to Hull already has an express train service run by Northern (calls only at Meadowhall, Doncaster, Goole and Brough. I admit the journey time isn't as fast as it should be but that is down to the track rather than the trains.

 

For this to be replaced by Transpennine Express the only real benefit would be an upgrade of rolling stock and on board service.

 

I suspect that a side effect of such a change might be an end of through trains to Bridlington and Filey. Another would be a reduction in the frequency of trains between Sheffield and Doncaster.

 

Meanwhile on the Cleethorpes line, the current fast service run by Transpennine Express (calls Meadowhall, Doncaster, Scunthorpe, Barnetby, Habrough, Grimsby Town and Cleethorpes) would simply vanish.

 

Instead the current railbus that calls all stations to Scunthorpe (thats Meadowhall, Rotherham, Swinton, Mexborough, Conisborough, Doncaster, Kirk Sandall, Hatfield & Stainforth, Thorne South, Crowle, Althorpe and Scunthorpe) would be extended on to Barnetby, Habrough, Grimsby Town and Cleethorpes. For passengers travelling to Grimsby and Cleethorpes the quality of rolling stock will be much lower and the journey times much longer. It will also reduce the frequency of trains between Sheffield, Doncaster and Scunthorpe.

[smiggs 10]

Normally TPE trains do not follow the same route or call at the same stations (Meadowhall excepted) as Northern on their route between Sheffield and Doncaster.

 

The Northern Sheffield to Hull "express" runs the same route and stops between Sheffield and Doncaster as the TPE Cleethorpes to Manchester service.

 

I'm not convinced on this transfer has much if any benefit, if the are simply extending the railbus service to Cleethorpes and not making Cleethorpes to Sheffield on par with what the current Hull to Sheffield "express" then that's a clear loss of service for everyone apart from those in Hull wanting to go to Manchester. Would this offer a comparable journey time similar to the service via Leeds? The loss of through trains from Sheffield to the coast line would also be irritating and lead to longer journey times for anyone who needs to travel locally in East Yorkshire after reaching Hull.

 

If it is simply a cost saving exercise they should just say so, rather than trying to wrap it up as a way to improve services.

[Andy C 86]

Don't forget to take part in the consultation..... https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/future-of-northern-and-transpennine-express-rail-franchises

[Annie Bynnol 612]

The Northern Sheffield to Hull "express" runs the same route and stops between Sheffield and Doncaster as the TPE Cleethorpes to Manchester service.

 

I'm not convinced on this transfer has much if any benefit, if the are simply extending the railbus service to Cleethorpes and not making Cleethorpes to Sheffield on par with what the current Hull to Sheffield "express" then that's a clear loss of service for everyone apart from those in Hull wanting to go to Manchester. Would this offer a comparable journey time similar to the service via Leeds? The loss of through trains from Sheffield to the coast line would also be irritating and lead to longer journey times for anyone who needs to travel locally in East Yorkshire after reaching Hull.

 

If it is simply a cost saving exercise they should just say so, rather than trying to wrap it up as a way to improve services.

 

There is no improvement in service.

It is part DfT wanting a change in the franchise so that the East Midlands franchise lose the Liverpool to Norwich route. New operators to spilt at Nottingham.

The second part is the part electrification of the north west and the DfT saying no to anymore diesel trains for ten years.

 

This leaves a non electrified route from Liverpool/ Widnes to Manchester and from Selby to Hull.

To maximise electric routes out of Manchester and Manchester Airport and to avoid using diesels the current Hull Manchester service via Leeds and Selby will be extended to Liverpool and or MIA and routed via Goole and Sheffield.

 

If in the future the lines from Chesterfield to Nottingham/Peterborough and from Sheffield to Manchester/Moorthorpe/Doncaster and Hull to Selby are electrified then the services out of Sheffield could be planned for customer convenience rather than operational necessity.

[SYorksDeano 10]

It is part DfT wanting a change in the franchise so that the East Midlands franchise lose the Liverpool to Norwich route. New operators to spilt at Nottingham.

 

I can see them doing what Northern and Scotrail do with the service to Glasgow Central via Carlisle from Newcastle on this one.

 

Basically its Northern Rail service operated by Northern staff but a Scotrail train. I believe Scotrail do the same with some Northern services as well.

[Andy C 86]

I can see them doing what Northern and Scotrail do with the service to Glasgow Central via Carlisle from Newcastle on this one.

 

Basically its Northern Rail service operated by Northern staff but a Scotrail train. I believe Scotrail do the same with some Northern services as well.

 

I don't think that is what is being proposed. East Midlands Trains will continue to run their Nottingham-Norwich service with Transpennine Express running Liverpool-Nottingham with different rolling stock used.

 

This would be operationally more efficient but lose an important long distance link.

 

No more direct trains from Sheffield to Norwich and no more reaching Cambridge, Stansted Airport, Kings Lynn etc with just one change at Ely.