Future of train services in the north - government consultation

[RollingJ 2,040]

northernboy - Sheffield-London service hasn't had slam-door trains for a long while.

[No User Name 10]

If the driver is responsible for shutting the doors, what will happen on the Sheffield to London services with the manual slam-shut doors - will he have to walk the length of the train at each stop?

 

Those trains arent in the scope of this consultation. Neither are CrossCountry ones, Hull Trains, East Coast etc...

 

This consultation is merely looking at the "North" franchise which almost exclusively is concerning the trains currently run by Northern and TPE, as well as the EMT Liverpool-Norwich route.

Edited June 13, 2014 by No User Name

[northernboy 13]

northernboy - Sheffield-London service hasn't had slam-door trains for a long while.

 

Oh ok, it did the last time I went to London, think it was November last year...

 

---------- Post added 13-06-2014 at 15:10 ----------

 

Those trains arent in the scope of this consultation. Neither are CrossCountry ones, Hull Trains, East Coast etc...

 

This consultation is merely looking at the "North" franchise which almost exclusively is concerning the trains currently run by Northern and TPE, as well as the EMT Liverpool-Norwich route.

 

Thanks, sorry for misunderstanding - I assumed all of EMT would be included.

[No User Name 10]

And yes I am quite sure EMT still use slam door trains, the ones that extend up to Leeds/York certainly do.

[Andy C 86]

And yes I am quite sure EMT still use slam door trains, the ones that extend up to Leeds/York certainly do.

 

The classic High Speed Trains (Intercity125) do, these are mostly on the Nottingham-London route these days with the more modern 'Meridian' trains (class 222 multiple unit) on most Sheffield-london services

[RollingJ 2,040]

The classic High Speed Trains (Intercity125) do, these are mostly on the Nottingham-London route these days with the more modern 'Meridian' trains (class 222 multiple unit) on most Sheffield-london services

 

I go to London (for Brighton and the return journey) 10/12 times a year, and have never once in 7 years caught one of the HST125 trains.

[Andy C 86]

I go to London (for Brighton and the return journey) 10/12 times a year, and have never once in 7 years caught one of the HST125 trains.

 

The odd one or two still appear on Sheffield-London, mainly early morning/late night and those trains that run through to/from Leeds.

 

As mentioned however, London services aren't part of this consultation, it is routes in the North of England that either currently or may in the future be operated by either the Northern Rail franchise or Transpennine Express franchise.

 

Transpennine Express currently have a modern fleet of class 185 3 car diesels, class 170 2 car diesels and class 350 4 car electrics.

 

Routes currently operated by Transpennine Express are:

Transpennine North: Liverpool/Manchester Airport-Huddersfield-Leeds-Hull/York-Scarborough/Middlesborough/Newcastle

Transpennine South: Manchester Airport-Sheffield-Doncaster-Cleethorpes

Transpennine North West: Manchester-Preston-Blackpool North/Windermere/Barrow In Furness/Glasgow/Edinburgh

These are all long distance, limited stop services with both First and Standard class accommodation, seat reservations and a refreshment trolley.

 

Northern Rail have a mostly aging fleet consisting of

class 142 and class 144 diesel 'pacer railbus', mix of 2 and 3 car

class 150 2 car diesel 'sprinter'

class 153 single car diesel unit

class 156 2 car diesel 'super sprinter'

class 158 diesel, mix of 2 and 3 car

class 321 4 car electric

class 323 3 car electric

class 333 4 car electric

 

Routes currently operated by Northern Rail are:

Nottingham-Sheffield-Barnsley-Leeds

Sheffield-Barnsley-Huddersfield

Sheffield-Rotherham-Wakefield-Leeds

Doncaster-Adwick-Wakefield-Leeds

Sheffield-Worksop-Retford-Lincoln/Cleethorpes

Sheffield-Rotherham-Doncaster-Adwick/Scunthorpe

Sheffield-Doncaster-Goole-Hull-Bridlington-Filey-Scarborough

Sheffield-Hope Valley-Romiley-Manchester

Sheffield-Pontefract-York

Hull-Selby-York

York-Harrogate-Leeds

Leeds-Settle Carlisle

Carlisle-Whitehaven-Barrow In Furness

Leeds-Lancaster-Morecambe-Heysham Port

Colne-Preston-Blackpool South

Ormskirk-Preston

Blackpool North-Preston-Wigan-Liverpool

Leeds-Hebden Bridge-Manchester/Preston-Blackpool North

Leeds-Huddersfield

Leeds-Dewsbury-Brighouse-Manchester

Selby-Leeds

Leeds-Bradford/Ilkley/Skipton

Manchester/Bradford-Huddersfield-Wakefield

Wakefield-Knottingley

Manchester-Rose Hill

Manchester-Glossop-Hadfield

Manchester-Crewe

Manchester-Stoke

Manchester-Chester

Manchester-Buxton

Manchester-Liverpool

Manchester-Blackburn-Clitheroe

Manchester-Wigan-Southport

Rochdale-Wigan-Kirkby

Warrington-Ellesmere Port

Liverpool-Wigan

Carlisle-Hexham-Newcastle

Newcastle-Morpeth/Chathill

Sunderland-Newcastle-Metrocentre

Saltburn-Darlington-Newcastle/Bishop Auckland

Hexham-Newcastle-Middlesborough

Middlesborough-Whitby

Most Northern Rail services are basic local services with simple Standard Class accommodation calling all stations.

 

Some facts and figures about the current Northern Rail train company (from their website):

 

Northern was formed in December 2004 when our parent companies won the franchise contract (awarded by the UK Government) to operate train services in the north of England until April 2014.

 

We have 4,900 employees providing nearly 2500 local and regional train services every weekday, making us the largest train operator in the UK.

 

We run trains across the north of England, serving a population of nearly 15m.

 

Our trains call at over 500 stations (approximately 20% of all UK railway stations), of which we manage 462.

 

We lease around 313 trains, both diesel and electric.

 

We provide direct access to three National parks; Peak District, Yorkshire Dales and North Yorkshire Moors as well as routes into the Lake District.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Andy C

[Se7enhills 10]

Northern also get the highest subsidy per passenger mile of any TOC

[RichJay 10]

northernboy - Sheffield-London service hasn't had slam-door trains for a long while.

 

It did when I came back from London last week.

[MyGirl 10]

I don't know how Northern actually make any money. Ticket offices hardly open at smaller stations, ticket machines removed, overcrowded trains so guards cannot get to every passenger and take fares. The saturday trains are a classic when Rotherham play. I have only managed to pay twice in 3 years.

 

The pacer units are a disgrace. 30 years old! Even Iranian railways have withdrawn their fleet!

 

These consultations are a complete waste of time, they will do what they want, we will end up with Southern cast offs for 'new' rolling stock. Overcrowding will continue, staff cuts will continue. Non payment will rise etc......I'm just glad I do not have to rely on the train services on a regular basis, stick to the car.

[1978 14]

On the other side of the coin, with the Transpennine Express diverted after Doncaster to go to Hull instead of Cleethorpes, replacing the current Northern rail Sheffield-Hull express, this would see Sheffield-Hull passengers enjoy an upgrade to an Intercity standard on board environment, however it would reduce the Hull-Leeds route to a shuttle with through passengers for Manchester getting a much longer journey via Sheffield. This all seems to be a result of the North Transpennine electrification not including Hull.

 

However, Hull and Hull Trains are making a good case to electrify from Selby to Hull which adds another twist to the future planning, see; http://www.hulltrains.co.uk/about-us/news/2014/03/first-hull-trains-welcomes-%C2%A324m-government-pledge-to-electrify-train-lines-from-hull-to-selby/ and; http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Electrification-Hull-Selby-railway-line-power/story-20837410-detail/story.html

 

A target date of 2017 sounds a little optimistic, but if it's to be mostly paid for by Hull Trains maybe it isn't.

 

Curiously, the aim of the Northern Hub locally is to provide paths for at least 3 fast trains an hour down the Hope Valley to Manchester. It wasn't so very long ago that I seem to recall the fast services between Sheffield and Manchester served Cleethorpes and Hull alternately. Deprive Cleethorpes of direct trains for 2 or 3 years, then announce an improved service Sheffield - Manchester; that third Hope Valley hourly train, going from Cleethorpes to Blackpool - or even Windermere?!

Edited June 14, 2014 by 1978
Added paragraph

[smiggs 10]

However, Hull and Hull Trains are making a good case to electrify from Selby to Hull which adds another twist to the future planning, see; http://www.hulltrains.co.uk/about-us/news/2014/03/first-hull-trains-welcomes-%C2%A324m-government-pledge-to-electrify-train-lines-from-hull-to-selby/ and; http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Electrification-Hull-Selby-railway-line-power/story-20837410-detail/story.html

 

A target date of 2017 sounds a little optimistic, but if it's to be mostly paid for by Hull Trains maybe it isn't.

 

First have a very big stake in the railways in and out of Hull, given that they operate the only services that could be deemed express. If they pull this off I hope they retain the TPE franchise as well and fully profit from their investment.

 

Not fully convinced that having one of the Hull to Sheffield trains run through to Manchester benefits anyone much, unless you're going to Hull to Stockport! It's just strikes me as a slow way to get between Hull and Manchester and a lazy way to give people going between Hull and Sheffield decent trains, if you want to extend the route it should join the Cross-country franchise and run through to Birmingham.

Edited June 14, 2014 by smiggs