Ukip. All discussion here please.

[retep 68]

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/greg-dropkin-karen-reissman/healthcare-in-britain-first-they-came-for-immigrants

 

No,there's been cuts to services:

 

 

 

When the NHS was created on 5th July 1948, one of its founding principles was universal health care. This meant that everyone in Britain had the same access to the health service. Nye Bevan explicitly refuted the argument that foreign visitors should not benefit from the health service funded by UK taxation.

 

Bevan wrote “How do we distinguish a visitor from anybody else? Are British citizens to carry means of identification everywhere to prove that they are not visitors? What began as an attempt to keep the Health Service for ourselves would end by being a nuisance to everybody. The whole agitation has a nasty taste. Instead of rejoicing at the opportunity to practice a civilized principle, Conservatives have tried to exploit the most disreputable emotions in this among many other attempts to discredit socialized medicine.“

 

 

 

The Conservative-LibDem Coalition’s proposal to charge non-EU migrants for NHS care is a cynical attempt to divert people’s attention from the real source of the problems affecting the health service. It is also the thin end of a thick wedge.

 

Across the country A&E units are under intolerable pressures due to real terms spending cuts despite the supposed ring-fencing of health spending. The ’111’ service that was supposed to replace NHS Direct is in virtual meltdown. Waiting lists grow. Thousands of staff - clinicians as well as supposed ’pen pushers’ - face redundancy in Trusts across Britain. Wards and even whole hospitals are closing.

 

The NHS crisis does not stem from migrants abusing the system. Estimates of the supposed costs of so-called ’health tourism’ vary dramatically from under £35m to more than £200m. These sums might sound substantial, but even the higher figure accounts for less than 0. 17% of the overall NHS budget. Compare this with the £20bn the Tory-led government is slashing from the NHS through ’efficiency savings’, nearly 20% of the total. In proportional terms this is the biggest cut in health spending of any country including beleaguered Greece. Then look at the £3bn price tag for implementing the Health and Social Care Act 2012, which was never in a party manifesto and is a thinly disguised charter for privatisation.

 

 

Cuts to services don't make people appear.

[chalga 10]

Cuts to services don't make people appear.

 

No,they give the chance for people to scapegoat the ones that appear instead of the money that disappears.

[anfisa 10]

 

No,there's been cuts to services:

 

 

 

When the NHS was created on 5th July 1948, one of its founding principles was universal health care. This meant that everyone in Britain had the same access to the health service. Nye Bevan explicitly refuted the argument that foreign visitors should not benefit from the health service funded by UK taxation.

 

Bevan wrote “How do we distinguish a visitor from anybody else? Are British citizens to carry means of identification everywhere to prove that they are not visitors? What began as an attempt to keep the Health Service for ourselves would end by being a nuisance to everybody. The whole agitation has a nasty taste. Instead of rejoicing at the opportunity to practice a civilized principle, Conservatives have tried to exploit the most disreputable emotions in this among many other attempts to discredit socialized medicine.“

 

 

 

The Conservative-LibDem Coalition’s proposal to charge non-EU migrants for NHS care is a cynical attempt to divert people’s attention from the real source of the problems affecting the health service. It is also the thin end of a thick wedge.

 

Across the country A&E units are under intolerable pressures due to real terms spending cuts despite the supposed ring-fencing of health spending. The ’111’ service that was supposed to replace NHS Direct is in virtual meltdown. Waiting lists grow. Thousands of staff - clinicians as well as supposed ’pen pushers’ - face redundancy in Trusts across Britain. Wards and even whole hospitals are closing.

 

The NHS crisis does not stem from migrants abusing the system. Estimates of the supposed costs of so-called ’health tourism’ vary dramatically from under £35m to more than £200m. These sums might sound substantial, but even the higher figure accounts for less than 0. 17% of the overall NHS budget. Compare this with the £20bn the Tory-led government is slashing from the NHS through ’efficiency savings’, nearly 20% of the total. In proportional terms this is the biggest cut in health spending of any country including beleaguered Greece. Then look at the £3bn price tag for implementing the Health and Social Care Act 2012, which was never in a party manifesto and is a thinly disguised charter for privatisation.

 

The NHS crisis does not stem from migrants abusing the system.

 

But could it stem from an increased number of people using the system.

 

NHS expenditure has increased every year from £66.20 billion in 2003 to £129.45 billion in 2014 and planned expenditure for 2015 and 2016 is £132.97bn and £135.13bn.

[JFKvsNixon 11]

But could it stem from an increased number of people using the system.

 

NHS expenditure has increased every year from £66.20 billion in 2003 to £129.45 billion in 2014 and planned expenditure for 2015 and 2016 is £132.97bn and £135.13bn.

 

It's probably got more to do with our current unhealthy lifestyles, an ageing population, new expensive treatments and increasing costs of existing treatments.

[LeMaquis 10]

But could it stem from an increased number of people using the system.

 

NHS expenditure has increased every year from £66.20 billion in 2003 to £129.45 billion in 2014 and planned expenditure for 2015 and 2016 is £132.97bn and £135.13bn.

 

NHS spending has increased every year since 1948 apart from in one or two years. The population has also grown a lot since then but successive governments have targeted it for extra spending because of its popularity among the public and not necessarily because of an increased population. The population hasn't doubled since 2003 and so extra spending on the NHS isn't just down to a larger population.

 

http://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/data-and-charts/history-nhs-spending-uk

[Ellco 10]

Anyone with an ounce of common sense will realise that more people using a service will mean more staff and more cost.

[Xt500 10]

Anyone with an ounce of common sense will realise that more people using a service will mean more staff and more cost.

 

Seems some dont

[Ellco 10]

Seems some dont

 

I wonder why Man Utd have more Stewards than Rotherham Utd on match days.

[Xt500 10]

I wonder why Man Utd have more Stewards than Rotherham Utd on match days.

 

i dont nor do i care

[chalga 10]

Anyone with an ounce of common sense will realise that more people using a service will mean more staff and more cost.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2647796/Rise-100-year-old-puts-NHS-strain-Centenarian-population-expected-hit-half-million-30-years.html

Hospitals are being put under unprecedented pressure as record numbers of people live to 100 or more, experts warned last night.

Care homes and the NHS will struggle to cope as Britain’s centenarian population soars, with 35,000 people living to see their 100th birthday in England in the past ten years.

But the number is expected to reach half a million in Britain by 2066, according to a ten-year study at King’s College Londo

 

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2647796/Rise-100-year-old-puts-NHS-strain-Centenarian-population-expected-hit-half-million-30-years.html#ixzz3Lj6Gmqwi

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

 

 

Yes,old people,living longer,

Edited December 12, 2014 by chalga

[Xt500 10]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2647796/Rise-100-year-old-puts-NHS-strain-Centenarian-population-expected-hit-half-million-30-years.html

 

Yes,old people,living longer,

 

Ah right British to blame not...

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/420734/Migrants-fuel-UK-baby-boom-One-in-four-now-born-to-foreign-mums

 

---------- Post added 12-12-2014 at 22:47 ----------

 

or

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10503178/Migrants-cost-up-to-8k-each-in-NHS-care-schools-and-welfare.html

 

---------- Post added 12-12-2014 at 22:48 ----------

 

or even 2 BILLION a year!!

 

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/22/temporary-migrants-nhs-cost-study

[JFKvsNixon 11]

Anyone with an ounce of common sense will realise that more people using a service will mean more staff and more cost.

 

Also that common sense also extends to more people paying tax equals bigger tax revenue to pay towards services like the NHS.

 

---------- Post added 12-12-2014 at 22:52 ----------

 

I wonder why Man Utd have more Stewards than Rotherham Utd on match days.

 

Do you mean, more stewards funded by the larger crowds? By your argument you'd rather be Rotherham Utd than Man Utd.