Ukip. All discussion here please.

[Bonzo77 13]

The issue is government policy and business looking for a cheap supply of labour, the result of both is large scale immigration and the adverse affects that comes with increasing the population.

 

I don't believe the increase in population couldn't be catered for if we had the money (we all know where I think that should come from). But businesses should not be paying immigrants lower wages than British people.

[anfisa 10]

I think that's half true. The original UKIP as conceived by Alan Sked is a far cry from the party that it is today. Back then, UKIP was primarily a pressure group that campaigned to keep the UK out of EU.

Since then UKIP has become a vehicle for all kinds of shrieking opinions - not unlike the Monday Club of the 1970s. And like the Monday Club, the views of some UKIP members on things like homosexuality and the role of women for example, are just plain bizarre.

 

It is an interesting hybrid of a party; it has some policies which are thought of as traditionally right wing and some which are traditionally left wing....

 

I agree that some UKIP members have bizarre opinions and UKIP have some policies I totally disagree with.

[dosxuk 10]

The issue is government policy and business looking for a cheap supply of labour, the result of both is large scale immigration and the adverse affects that comes with increasing the population.

 

There are many positive effects though, from increased employment and a more stable economy through to better living standards. Not to mention the ability to go and work / live abroad as and when you feel like.

[anfisa 10]

I don't believe the increase in population couldn't be catered for if we had the money (we all know where I think that should come from). But businesses should not be paying immigrants lower wages than British people.

 

An over supply of labour forces wages down for all, so it is not a case of them paying immigrants lower wages, it is a case of using immigration as a means to keep everyone's wage low. There is little point in cutting costs by increasing the population if that results in a massive increase in public spending to increase the supply of services and infrastructure. The result is just a larger population with no one actuality any better off (other than the wealthy) and an increase in consumption which results in increased climate change which again adversely affects everyone.

 

---------- Post added 29-12-2014 at 13:04 ----------

 

There are many positive effects though, from increased employment and a more stable economy through to better living standards. Not to mention the ability to go and work / live abroad as and when you feel like.

 

Yes there are positive effects, so some people will benefit from immigration, (mostly rich people), and some people will be adversely affected by immigration, (mostly poor people).

Edited December 29, 2014 by anfisa

[chalga 10]

You change tack again, blurting out your Carswell, just like your tidal wave, saying it over and over again just makes you look stupid, repetition compulsion comes to mind.

 

Still no answers to the points put to you,just because you don't like what you are reading doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it,there's the insults and bad mouthing again,no answers.only insults.Answer the points that a UKIP MP is making about UKIP and their blaming of immigrants.............how difficult is that?

[Ellco 10]

It looks like logic to me.

 

Farage had all of the relevant information to hand to allow him to plan a journey. He failed, then took a bad tempered swipe at a productive part of our population.

 

And he wants to be taken seriously as a politician? Do me a favour.

 

Well... someone has got their fingers in their ears repeating no no no... I won't listen

 

Why not just accept that the increase in population is causing issues. We could not plan for the increases because we don't know what they will be. 12 people may come next year or it might be 2m we just don't know..

 

There's a big difference between someone like yourself and people who are racist. I just think you, and the majority of people on this thread, are focusing on the wrong issues. It's not the people taking the jobs that's the issue. Why are they taking the jobs? Why are employers taking on immigrants rather than British people?

 

If there were no immigrants, who would take these jobs? Would these jobs even exist at the pay scale that are now?

 

You are a confused individual... you are critical of big business and banks but then support the introduction of low paid workers to make them even more money.

 

We have reached a more civilized stage in this country now where people should be paid a decent wage and stop these multi nationals and other big businesses like agricultural companies exploiting the low paid. British people, of whatever race, may not want these jobs, that's because they are not worth having. Are you in favour of sending children up chimneys? Its cheaper and I'm sure there are immigrants willing to do it.

 

Immigrants working for these low wages are in fact very well paid in comparison to people back in their homeland... they also receive in work benefits and spend this back home... where money goes a lot further.

 

If you are in favour of British people being made to work for a pittance which gives them a very poor standard of living then that's fair enough, you are a Conservative, that's what they want. If you are in favour of paying people a decent wage I'd stop talking up mass immigration as though it is a benefit to the country. It's not a benefit to poor people who have their wages driven down by cheap labour from abroad...

 

An ex Labour Mayor defects to UKIP rubbishing the Tories assumption thrown at our party... Oh and he's not white... Why would somebody like that want to join a racist party... perhaps we're not..

 

http://www.gloucestercitizen.co.uk/Exclusive-Gloucester-Labour-stalwart-Harjit-Gill/story-25777583-detail/story.html#C62GXgyqjFwLIQtB.01

 

---------- Post added 29-12-2014 at 14:01 ----------

 

 

Yes there are positive effects, so some people will benefit from immigration, (mostly rich people), and some people will be adversely affected by immigration, (mostly poor people).

 

You can state the obvious until blue in the face.. but they won't accept it. Why? To say anything slightly critical of immigration means you are a skin head NF member, or so they think. The fear of being called racist trumps everything else. This is even more obvious with feminists ignoring inequality in some ethnic minority groups because, as I said before, everything is trumped by the "racist" slur..

[dosxuk 10]

We have reached a more civilized stage in this country now where people should be paid a decent wage and stop these multi nationals and other big businesses like agricultural companies exploiting the low paid. British people, of whatever race, may not want these jobs, that's because they are not worth having. Are you in favour of sending children up chimneys? Its cheaper and I'm sure there are immigrants willing to do it.

 

Immigrants working for these low wages are in fact very well paid in comparison to people back in their homeland... they also receive in work benefits and spend this back home... where money goes a lot further.

 

If you are in favour of British people being made to work for a pittance which gives them a very poor standard of living then that's fair enough, you are a Conservative, that's what they want. If you are in favour of paying people a decent wage I'd stop talking up mass immigration as though it is a benefit to the country. It's not a benefit to poor people who have their wages driven down by cheap labour from abroad...

 

Of course, there's no negative effects from paying everybody a significantly* higher wage is there?

 

(*for someone on minimum wage, even £1/hour more would be a significant increase. I'm not talking about giving everyone an extra £1000/week).

[Blackbeard 10]

looks like Nigel is required in Singapore, it seems the world is full of "Johnny Foreigners".

"The estimated number of Filipinos working in Singapore tripled in the past decade to about 167,000 as of 2013, according to Philippines census data. The Singapore government declined to provide the BBC with official figures.

 

But their rising visibility in Singapore's society has drawn attention. Amid increasing general resentment towards foreigners, a backlash towards Filipinos has taken place."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-28953147

[retep 68]

Still no answers to the points put to you,just because you don't like what you are reading doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it,there's the insults and bad mouthing again,no answers.only insults.Answer the points that a UKIP MP is making about UKIP and their blaming of immigrants.............how difficult is that?

 

Not difficult at all,

 

"Douglas Carswell has told his new party it must show an "inclusive" face and not blame immigrants for Britain's woes if it is to become a serious force."

 

Good advice.

[Bonzo77 13]

You are a confused individual... you are critical of big business and banks but then support the introduction of low paid workers to make them even more money.

 

Get a grip brainiac! If you even knew the slightest bit about me you'd know I don't support anything of the such!

 

---------- Post added 29-12-2014 at 17:09 ----------

 

An over supply of labour forces wages down for all, so it is not a case of them paying immigrants lower wages, it is a case of using immigration as a means to keep everyone's wage low. There is little point in cutting costs by increasing the population if that results in a massive increase in public spending to increase the supply of services and infrastructure. The result is just a larger population with no one actuality any better off (other than the wealthy) and an increase in consumption which results in increased climate change which again adversely affects everyone.

 

I actually agree with the majority of this post. I don't think it's the amount of immigrants that's keeping wages low though. There's always been a large army of unemployed in the UK.

[anfisa 10]

 

I actually agree with the majority of this post. I don't think it's the amount of immigrants that's keeping wages low though. There's always been a large army of unemployed in the UK.

 

 

 

 

But there is an even larger army of unemployed in the EU and around the world, if employers can set people on from anywhere in the world they have no need to increase wages here. If employers were only allowed to set people on that already live in the UK they would have to put more effort into encouraging them into work as well as offering training.

 

Eurostat estimates that 24.413 million men and women in the were unemployed in October 2014. That's a lot of unemployed people for British companies to choose from and most are more than happy to work for the minimum wage. So you can see that unemployed people do not need to be living in the UK to have an affect on UK wages.

[clinteastwoo 10]

It's exactly what it was made out to be.............Farage blamed immigration,immigration is connected to immigrants..............despite UKIP trying to take those two words and separate them as if they have no connection in a ridiculous attempt to try to appear less racist and xenophobic.

 

Well you must be one of the few people in the country that don't see a connection between immigration and the population expansion.

 

The words Farage used are there for you to see, you can twist them to be racist if you wish but it was a factual statement and one that you can not dispute unless you presume the rest of us are really poor at maths and when you add numbers together it means an overall increase in the original number and more so once you take into account pro creation.

 

Its easier to deny climate change than it is to deny immigration = population growth.