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The Labour Party. All discussion here please

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11 hours ago, banjodeano said:

i dont believe Corbyn lost because the people disliked his policies, i think he lost because he chose the wrong strategy on brexit, in short he should have been up front and gone along with the vote, in the previous election he increased labours vote share on the  same policies.....

Rubbish, there's more than that and we've been saying it on here for years, but you ignored it and Labour got the bloody nose it long deserved.

 

He alienated and split the party into so many factions.  

 

This should have been the time he stood down:

 

Labour MPs pass no-confidence motion in Jeremy Corbyn

 

Quote

The 172-40 vote, which is not binding, follows resignations from the shadow cabinet and calls on Mr Corbyn to quit.

Mr Corbyn said the ballot had "no constitutional legitimacy" and said he would not "betray" the members who voted for him by resigning.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36647458

 

But no.  He was steering the ship onto the rocks and wouldn't let go of the rudder.

 

And as long as organisations like Momentum and people like Rebecca Wrong Daily have anything to do with the party and think the UK is anything like the little bubble they occupy then they'll keep getting punished.

Edited by alchresearch

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16 hours ago, banjodeano said:

Gamble on what? i dont have a clue what you are talking about, momentum dont decide who the leader of the labour party is, each member has a vote, whether they are also in momentum or not

Come on Banjo, you're better than that. Momentum claim 40,000 members which is a fair chunk of the Labour membership. By them effectively self declaring RLB as their chosen one this gives her all the financial and promotional support that momentum can supply. Do you not agree that any additional promotional material or votes from momentum will help RLB in her cause? 

Yes the "members" have the vote in the end but Momentum will be pushing a lot of its 40K membership to vote for RLB.

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9 hours ago, Pettytom said:

Corbyn lost because he wasn’t credible. He’s not Prime Minister material and should have stood down years ago for the good of the party.

 

I’m an ex-door knocker and envelope stuffed, by the way. So please don’t patronise me with your tru-socialist nonsense.

 

You momentum types need to realise that the game is over. Whilst you are moaning about paying for broadband, a whole host of people are paying the price of your vanity project.

 

It is time to grow up and recognise what needs to be done to elect a Labour government in four years time.

No Corbyn didnt lose because he wasnt credible. he lost because of Brexit, i agree he wasnt the most desirable leader and carried a lot of baggage, and a lot of his credibility issues were due to a bias media campaign against him..but he did give the voters an alternative, an alternative that the electorate has not had for years, and as i said previously, if his policies were his downfall how come he increased the labour party share of the vote in 2017,? these were the same policies by the same leader, 

As for the momentum types, i have no idea what you mean by that, momentum were formed to fight the right wing in the party, Longcol has already made some stupid comments about momentum which he could not back up and i had to correct him.

I think you were probably door knocking for the wrong party if you dont agree with socialism, you should have perhaps been working for the Liberals, you seem to be more in tune with them

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Its quite funny, really  They let Momentum get their feet under the table, assumed that the youth and their "Oh Jeremy Corbyn" chants would be enough to give them a landslide victory, turning their backs and slamming the doors on moderate Centrist "Blairite" Labour supporters who were larger in numbers than they could have realised.

 

The party became fragmented.   You were fighting and arguing with the Tories, the Lib Dems, the "Blairites", the "right wing Labour", the Jews.

 

 

Edited by alchresearch

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6 minutes ago, sheffbag said:

Come on Banjo, you're better than that. Momentum claim 40,000 members which is a fair chunk of the Labour membership. By them effectively self declaring RLB as their chosen one this gives her all the financial and promotional support that momentum can supply. Do you not agree that any additional promotional material or votes from momentum will help RLB in her cause? 

Yes the "members" have the vote in the end but Momentum will be pushing a lot of its 40K membership to vote for RLB.

that is democracy Sheffbag, the one who gets the most votes wins, that is democracy in action, the right wing of the labour party has its own support, run by someone called Luke Akehurst i think, no idea what the group is called off the top of my head, but nobody is bothered about it.

Like i said, its the numbers that matter, and lets not forget every momentum member has to be a labour party member to vote, so it really is immaterial if they are in momentum or not, but every member will look at what each candidate stands for, and each member will know who is a socialist and who is not, a momentum member will not need to be told who would the be the candidate for him, so i reiterate my point again, momentum have no influence over the election as much as people would like to think otherwise

7 minutes ago, alchresearch said:

Its quite funny, really  They let Momentum get their feet under the table, assumed that the youth and their "Oh Jeremy Corbyn" chants would be enough to give them a landslide victory, turning their backs and slamming the doors on moderate Centrist "Blairite" Labour supporters who were larger in numbers than they could have realised.

 

The party became fragmented.   You were fighting and arguing with the Tories, the Lib Dems, the "Blairites", the "right wing Labour", the Jews.

 

 

to be honest alchy, i think the Blairites in the party had already caused the rot in the labour party, after Blair went there were many working class in the country saying they would never vote labour again, this was even before Corbyn came along

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9 minutes ago, banjodeano said:

that is democracy Sheffbag, the one who gets the most votes wins, that is democracy in action, the right wing of the labour party has its own support, run by someone called Luke Akehurst i think, no idea what the group is called off the top of my head, but nobody is bothered about it.

Like i said, its the numbers that matter, and lets not forget every momentum member has to be a labour party member to vote, so it really is immaterial if they are in momentum or not, but every member will look at what each candidate stands for, and each member will know who is a socialist and who is not, a momentum member will not need to be told who would the be the candidate for him, so i reiterate my point again, momentum have no influence over the election as much as people would like to think otherwise

 

"the one who gets the most votes wins" - True, thats why Labour got hammered in the last election

"no idea what the group is called off the top of my head, but nobody is bothered about it." - Says a lot about your opinion of any right wingers within the party 

" momentum member will not need to be told who would the be the candidate for him" - or her. If thats the case then why have such a bogus one candidate vote? why not just the ruling part of it come out and say - "were backing RLB"

"momentum have no influence over the election as much as people would like to think otherwise" - So all the promotional material and effort that momentum will create for RLB will have no effect despite "Momentum has said that it plans to organise hundreds of phone banks across the country to call Labour members to canvass support for the candidates." or "Commenting on the endorsement, a Momentum spokesperson said: “Our membership has spoken and overwhelmingly backed Rebecca Long-Bailey to be the next leader of the Labour Party and the next Prime Minister of the UK. We will now be mobilising thousands to persuade Labour members in the coming months.” (quote Labourlist)

so why woudl they do it if it didnt influence people or dont people pay attention to what others say about candidates in an election?

 

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5 minutes ago, sheffbag said:

"the one who gets the most votes wins" - True, thats why Labour got hammered in the last election

"no idea what the group is called off the top of my head, but nobody is bothered about it." - Says a lot about your opinion of any right wingers within the party 

" momentum member will not need to be told who would the be the candidate for him" - or her. If thats the case then why have such a bogus one candidate vote? why not just the ruling part of it come out and say - "were backing RLB"

"momentum have no influence over the election as much as people would like to think otherwise" - So all the promotional material and effort that momentum will create for RLB will have no effect despite "Momentum has said that it plans to organise hundreds of phone banks across the country to call Labour members to canvass support for the candidates." or "Commenting on the endorsement, a Momentum spokesperson said: “Our membership has spoken and overwhelmingly backed Rebecca Long-Bailey to be the next leader of the Labour Party and the next Prime Minister of the UK. We will now be mobilising thousands to persuade Labour members in the coming months.” (quote Labourlist)

so why woudl they do it if it didnt influence people or dont people pay attention to what others say about candidates in an election?

 

i am not sure what you mean by that, one candidate vote

as for momentum phone calling people, do you not think it was used for other candidates? did you not think that it was used when Corbyn was challenged for the leadership ?  

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42 minutes ago, banjodeano said:

to be honest alchy, i think the Blairites in the party had already caused the rot in the labour party, after Blair went there were many working class in the country saying they would never vote labour again, this was even before Corbyn came along

True, but over time people's opinions mellow.  I knew in 2010 I wouldn't vote Labour for some time, but certainly not "never again".  

 

I know many in the 90s who said they would never vote Tory again after sleaze after sleaze.  Yet, come 2010 and 2019...........

 

 

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1 hour ago, banjodeano said:

that is democracy Sheffbag, the one who gets the most votes wins, that is democracy in action, the right wing of the labour party has its own support, run by someone called Luke Akehurst i think, no idea what the group is called off the top of my head, but nobody is bothered about it.

Like i said, its the numbers that matter, and lets not forget every momentum member has to be a labour party member to vote, so it really is immaterial if they are in momentum or not, but every member will look at what each candidate stands for, and each member will know who is a socialist and who is not, a momentum member will not need to be told who would the be the candidate for him, so i reiterate my point again, momentum have no influence over the election as much as people would like to think otherwise

 

I think you missed sheffbags point by a country mile, if Momentum tell us this is their candidate (one that supports their ideals, left wing) and gets all their supporters to vote for that candidate. then thats 40.000 votes more than the next candidate.

BUT

maybe their candidate is not the one to get Labour out of this mire yet wins cos the membership have been told to vote for one Momentum like rather than one that can get the party as a whole back to winning ways?

 

Its been brought up numerous times, dont get me wrong i support left wing ideals (to an extent) im an anarchist, BUT there comes a point where in real terms do you want to be clinging onto your left wing ideals and let the tories have another 10 / 20 / 30 years in power? or do you want to change things from the inside...by getting into power and maybe having to compromise things a wee bit to achieve your aims

 

shouting from the outside all your life is schoolboy politics

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1 hour ago, banjodeano said:

i am not sure what you mean by that, one candidate vote

as for momentum phone calling people, do you not think it was used for other candidates? did you not think that it was used when Corbyn was challenged for the leadership ?  

One candidate vote - Here are the questions/options Momentum gave its members

  • Should Momentum follow the NCG recommendation to endorse Rebecca Long-Bailey as the next leader of the Labour Party?”;
  • “Should Momentum follow the NCG recommendation to endorse Angela Rayner as the next deputy leader of the Labour Party?”

Momentum proposed one candidate only to its members. RLB. No coincidence that the head of momentum is involved in her election campaigning. No other candidate was offered nor any alternative if the membership decided not to accept the recommendation.

 

You think that is fair to the other candidates? 

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Labour has a choice:

 

It can either believe Corbyn did no wrong and continue down the same route with RLB as leader and Momentum with their claws in the party, and have business as usual and keep haemorrhaging support and look forward to ten years in opposition

 

Or it can take a new direction.  Own up to its failings and move on and rebuild.  Draw a line under all Corbyn's failings and start afresh.

 

The Tories want the first option.  Bizarrely, so do many Labour supporters.

Edited by alchresearch

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I'm surprised that Hilary Benn never put himself forward? 

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