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The Labour Party. All discussion here please

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23 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Never been as well off? Tell that to the disabled people who have had their already meagre income cut by half. Or the people moved onto Universal credit who have lost their homes. Or the people on growing waiting lists for hospital, who can't have operations. Or the people who can no longer afford their rent, or food. Or the highstreet shops that are closing. Or the old people left without adequate home care. Or the people who use day care centres which have closed. Or the social services which can barely function. Or the people who can't find a policeman when they need one because of cuts.  And so on.... 

 

Oh, wait a minute, the very rich are considerably better off...  that must be affecting the statistics...

 

As for Comic Relief, it's take has been falling steadily over the past few years, according to Jeremy Vine, (David Lammy seems to have taken the blame with his white supremicist rant this time.) Why do you object to charity going to your own country -  that's always been part of the Comic Relief principle, nothing left wing about it. It's objective is just to help people who need it, anything else is simply what you are reading into it. 

 

Do you also see Jesus as a left wing Communist?

I agree with the points you made Anna , but I am a lifelong  labour voter who will not vote for a Jeremy Corbyn led government. Why? because he is anti brexit and always will be.  I am  working class, a pensioner and not rich, I have grown up children and and young grandchildren and have spent a considerable amount of time    looking after older family members and will continue to do so. Brexit is not going to improve their lives or mine one little bit. We need someone who is going to lead the labour party in the right direction.

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2 hours ago, banjodeano said:

come on....he has doubled the party membership and increased the labour share of the vote at the last election

Jeremy Corbyn increased Labour's vote share more than any of the party's leaders since 1945

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-election-result-vote-share-increased-1945-clement-attlee-a7781706.html

The thing is your quote is from two years ago.  A hell of a lot of changed since them.  "A week is a long time in politics" - two years is definitely such.

 

Shall we talk about the more recent news of Labour's membership figures slump?  

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, Sidonica said:

I agree with the points you made Anna , but I am a lifelong  labour voter who will not vote for a Jeremy Corbyn led government. Why? because he is anti brexit and always will be.  I am  working class, a pensioner and not rich, I have grown up children and and young grandchildren and have spent a considerable amount of time    looking after older family members and will continue to do so. Brexit is not going to improve their lives or mine one little bit. We need someone who is going to lead the labour party in the right direction.

Then the Tories will get in again and you will have missed a golden opportunity.

 

Jeremy Corbyn personally is no lover of Europe, but he is doing his duty by the party membership and as opposition leader - unfortunately this is a huge muddle for all - nobody knows who's on what side because it should have been cross party from the start and wasn't, so both Labour and Conservatives have a mix of remainers and leavers trying to fight it out in each party. But I'd trust him to do a better job for everybody than anybody in the Conservatives.

 

But an election is about so much more than Brexit.

 

Let's face it, until the Referendum came up, most people cared not a hoot about being in the EU, we just got on with things, and we will do again, in or out. 

Whereas the other issues that beset our country, and there are lots,  need urgent attention and decisions to be made that are in the interests of the majority of people. And believe me, Corbyn's definately the man for that.

Edited by Anna B

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1 minute ago, alchresearch said:

The thing is your quote is from two years ago.  A hell of a lot of changed since them.  "A week is a long time in politics" - two years is definitely such.

 

Shall we talk about the more recent news of Labour's membership figures slump?  

Of course it was two years ago, thats when the election was, but the point is still relevant, he was supposed to get hammered in the election by all the pundits, and he didnt, May was **** a hoop that she was going to crush him, instead she had to pay the DUP to cling to power

If you would like to talk about the party membership, then go for it, do you have the actual figures and what credible source it is from?

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Then the Tories will get in again and you will have missed a golden opportunity.

 

Jeremy Corbyn personally is no lover of Europe, but he is doing his duty by the party membership and as opposition leader - unfortunately this is a huge muddle for all - nobody knows who's on what side because it should have been cross party from the start and wasn't, so both Labour and Conservatives have a mix of remainers and leavers trying to fight it out in each party. But I'd trust him to do a better job for everybody than anybody in the Conservatives.

 

But an election is about so much more than Brexit.

 

Let's face it, until the Referendum came up, most people cared not a hoot about being in the EU, we just got on with things, and we will do again, in or out. 

Whereas the other issues that beset our country, and there are lots,  need urgent attention and decisions to be made that are in the interests of the majority of people. And believe me, Corbyn's definately the man for that.

What?  Did you seriously say that.

 

The vast majority of Labour Party members favour remaining in the EU and / or a second referendum.  This was agreed at Conference in your so called democratic labour party.

 

How exactly is he doing his duty by the party membership?

 

Seriously, you Corbyn cultists are literally no different from Trumpists.  There is absolutely no intellectual honesty, no criticism of the man is ever tolerated, if his polling is low it is because of fake news and the establishment, but - more importantly - your collective ability as a group to spin lies and hope everyone else doesnt notice is staggering.

 

 

Edited by bendix

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1 hour ago, Anna B said:

Never been as well off? Tell that to the disabled people who have had their already meagre income cut by half. Or the people moved onto Universal credit who have lost their homes. Or the people on growing waiting lists for hospital, who can't have operations. Or the people who can no longer afford their rent, or food. Or the highstreet shops that are closing. Or the old people left without adequate home care. Or the people who use day care centres which have closed. Or the social services which can barely function. Or the people who can't find a policeman when they need one because of cuts.  And so on.... 

 

Oh, wait a minute, the very rich are considerably better off...  that must be affecting the statistics...

 

As for Comic Relief, it's take has been falling steadily over the past few years, according to Jeremy Vine, (David Lammy seems to have taken the blame with his white supremicist rant this time.) Why do you object to charity going to your own country -  that's always been part of the Comic Relief principle, nothing left wing about it. It's objective is just to help people who need it, anything else is simply what you are reading into it. 

 

Do you also see Jesus as a left wing Communist?

Could you provide a link to where disabled incomes have been halved please? I have managed to find where  some benefit elements have been halved 

 

"The maximum level of support provided through the disability additions within Universal Credit, when compared to the disability element of child tax credit – reduced from £54 per week at current rates, down to £27 per week."

 

Source https://www.childrenssociety.org.uk/sites/default/files/tcs/microsoft_word_-_disabled_children_briefing.pdf

 

As for waiting lists at Hospitals, what are they like in Wales, under a Labour administration?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-43716643

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-38670356

 

As for social services, don't make me laugh. I've got friends who work for social services, under several different authorities. The amount of waste, the time taken off sick is criminal. Most of them get 6 months off sick a year, and (council mentality) they make sure they take their 'entitlement'. 

 

I agree with you regarding the Police, and the blame rests mostly with Mrs May. However if the police spent more time patrolling, rather than investigating SOME of the so called hate crimes, things would be better. Things would be much better if some parents took more of an interest in what their offspring were upto.

 

I never said that I objected to charity going to my own country. Charity starts at home, so they say.

 

PS Care to answer how relative poverty is measured?

 

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3 minutes ago, convert said:

 

 

PS Care to answer how relative poverty is measured?

 

 

Relative poverty is a moving target.   In the UK you are considered to be in the relative poverty if your household income is below 60% of the median household income in the UK. At the end of 2017 UK median household income was £27,300.   Of course, it's relatively meaningless, as all such things are.  A household with 4-5 kids living in London earning £27300 would be struggling.  A single guy living in Hartlepool earning 60% of that might likely have an ok life.

 

Either way, it's fair to say that those in relative poverty today have significantly more comfortable lifestyles and choices than those in relative poverty by the same measurement 20, 50, or a 100 years ago.

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2 minutes ago, bendix said:

 

Relative poverty is a moving target.   In the UK you are considered to be in the relative poverty if your household income is below 60% of the median household income in the UK. At the end of 2017 UK median household income was £27,300.   Of course, it's relatively meaningless, as all such things are.  A household with 4-5 kids living in London earning £27300 would be struggling.  A single guy living in Hartlepool earning 60% of that might likely have an ok life.

 

Either way, it's fair to say that those in relative poverty today have significantly more comfortable lifestyles and choices than those in relative poverty by the same measurement 20, 50, or a 100 years ago.

Thank you, a household earning less than £27300 would be considered to be in relative poverty, would you agree Anna?

 

So a monthly income (assuming only 1 person working, or it will be higher) of around £1800 per month.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Sidonica said:

Brexit is not going to improve their lives or mine one little bit. We need someone who is going to lead the labour party in the right direction.

Despite the unproven theory that Labour can't win a general election without the support of hardcore Labour Brexiteers, Labour will never win an election as a Poundshop Brexit Party. 

 

At some point Labour has to become the anti-Brexit party and to do that it has to ditch Corbyn. After the release of the video from Ireland, Corbyn can never be a credible leader of an anti-Brexit party.

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3 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Despite the unproven theory that Labour can't win a general election without the support of hardcore Labour Brexiteers, Labour will never win an election as a Poundshop Brexit Party. 

 

At some point Labour has to become the anti-Brexit party and to do that it has to ditch Corbyn. After the release of the video from Ireland, Corbyn can never be a credible leader of an anti-Brexit party.

Can you imagine this thread if were the Labour Party presiding over the Brexit?

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19 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

 

 

At some point Labour has to become the anti-Brexit party and to do that it has to ditch Corbyn. After the release of the video from Ireland, Corbyn can never be a credible leader of an anti-Brexit party.

Dont be ridiculous.  Jeremy has doubled the size of the membership that he is prepared to ignore totally to achieve his personal anticapitalist Brexit dream.

 

Jeremy can do ANYTHING.  The man is a walking god.

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2 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Despite the unproven theory that Labour can't win a general election without the support of hardcore Labour Brexiteers, Labour will never win an election as a Poundshop Brexit Party. 

 

At some point Labour has to become the anti-Brexit party and to do that it has to ditch Corbyn. After the release of the video from Ireland, Corbyn can never be a credible leader of an anti-Brexit party.

Spot on.  Once they do this and become less obsessed with their current direction, then they'll have my vote again.  And I'm pretty sure I'm not alone.

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