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The Labour Party. All discussion here please

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22 hours ago, makapaka said:

What did they save us from in 2010?

A record peacetime deficit.

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2 hours ago, CaptainSwing said:

"The weakness and instability of the British economy in the mid-1970s, the consequence in part of the 1973 rise in oil prices [and don't forget that the Tories were in power until 1974], raised international alarm. The [Republican] US government in particular feared economic crisis would drive Britain into a left-wing siege economy, endangering NATO and the EEC. Anticipating the danger, the US Treasury set out to force Britain to make major domestic policy changes. The sterling crisis provided the opportunity. The IMF provided the weapon."

 

-- Blurb for Good-bye, Great Britain by Burk & Cairncross

 

As it turned out, the economic crisis didn't turn out to be as bad as predicted, and most of the loan wasn't needed.  But the damage was already done.  The "conditionalities" imposed by the IMF were enough to set the UK, and indeed the whole western world, on the downward spiral into neoliberalism.

The "downward spiral" that means we're now, on average, far better off than 40 years ago.

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15 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

A record peacetime deficit.

Whilst massively increasing debt.

 

they have reduced deficit by making people’s lives worse by cutting services yet have still managed to see the country’s debt increase.

 

what makes you so proud of this achievement by the tories? 

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1 hour ago, makapaka said:

Whilst massively increasing debt.

 

they have reduced deficit by making people’s lives worse by cutting services yet have still managed to see the country’s debt increase.

 

what makes you so proud of this achievement by the tories? 

Do you understand the difference between deficit and debt? If you do, presumably you understand that even reducing the deficit will still increase debt, just by less than what it would have increased by. Debt only goes down when we runs surplus. If we measure by percentage not GDP though, debt issue starting to fall now, because of the drastically reduced deficit.

3 hours ago, CaptainSwing said:

“Universal literacy was supposed to educate the common man to control his environment … But instead of a mind, universal literacy has given him rubber stamps, rubber stamps inked with advertising slogans, with editorials, with published scientific data, with the trivialities of the tabloids and the platitudes of history, but quite innocent of original thought.”

 

-- Edward Bernays, Propaganda (1928)

Rough translation: "people who disagree with me are stupid, only my way of thinking is right".

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1 minute ago, WiseOwl182 said:

Do you understand the difference between deficit and debt? If you do, presumably you understand that even reducing the deficit will still increase debt, just by less than what it would have increased by. Debt only goes down when we runs surplus. If we measure by percentage not GDP though, debt issue starting to fall now, because of the drastically reduced deficit.

Rough translation: "people who disagree with me are stupid, only my way of thinking is right".

I’ve just explained it to you - the deficit is decreasing and the debt is increasing - so again - what makes you so proud of this achievement?

 

 

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4 minutes ago, makapaka said:

I’ve just explained it to you - the deficit is decreasing and the debt is increasing - so again - what makes you so proud of this achievement?

 

 

How many times does it have to be explained that debt can’t go down until the deficit becomes a surplus. Don’t pretend that decreasing the deficit so successfully isn’t a success because the debt still grew. 

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12 hours ago, Mister M said:

 

You made an assertion that Galloway would not share a platform with Jews, as it's Jews, not Israelis that he's got a problem with. I provide evidence to the contrary in my reply, which you chose to ignore. I

 

 

Rosen, a former supporter of the Socialist Workers party and also a candidate under Galloway for Respect isn't exactly typical is he.

 

so-called anti-Zionists like Galloway are always looking for 'good Jews' to share a platform with, although they invariably find that there is very few of them as the overwhelming majority of Jewish people worldwide, however they vote, left or right,  support the notion of a Jewish homeland in the Middle East. 

 

there is a small number of extreme left wing 'good Jews' like Rosen they can get on board, but there is not all that many. So usually Galloway and his ilk are reduced to trying to persuade the Jewish religous nutjobs Neuteri Karta to appear with them, and which only shows their desperation, because Neuteri Karta are not anti-Zionist at all. They believe that Israel is only illegitimate because the Messiah is not yet here. When the Messiah comes, Neuteri Karta will morph into the most extreme Zionists you ever saw. 

 

Just now, blake said:

Rosen, a former supporter of the Socialist Workers party and also a candidate under Galloway for Respect isn't exactly typical is he.

 

so-called anti-Zionists like Galloway are always looking for 'good Jews' to share a platform with, although they invariably find that there is very few of them as the overwhelming majority of Jewish people worldwide, however they vote, left or right,  support the notion of a Jewish homeland in the Middle East. 

 

there is a small number of extreme left wing 'good Jews' like Rosen they can get on board, but there is not all that many. Corbyn did the same when he started associating with Jewdas, a bunch of nutjobs, when the antisemitic headlines started coming in thick and fast. But there is not all that many left wing ones. So usually Galloway and his ilk are reduced to trying to persuade the Jewish religous fundamentalist nutjobs Neuteri Karta to appear with them, and which only shows their desperation, because Neuteri Karta are not anti-Zionist at all. They believe that Israel is only illegitimate because the Messiah is not yet here. When the Messiah comes, Neuteri Karta will morph into the most extreme Zionists you ever saw. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, WiseOwl182 said:

Do you understand the difference between deficit and debt? If you do, presumably you understand that even reducing the deficit will still increase debt, just by less than what it would have increased by. Debt only goes down when we runs surplus. If we measure by percentage not GDP though, debt issue starting to fall now, because of the drastically reduced deficit.

Rough translation: "people who disagree with me are stupid, only my way of thinking is right".

Did you miss the bit about the Tories missing every single deficit reduction target they set themselves for 7 years?

 

Dont answer. It’s clear that you did miss it.

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23 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

Did you miss the bit about the Tories missing every single deficit reduction target they set themselves for 7 years?

 

Dont answer. It’s clear that you did miss it.

But they still achieved it in the end. I think that’s the more substantive point. I’m not really bothered that it took longer than they originally thought (things always do) but I do think it was important that the deficit was brought down. 

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2 hours ago, blake said:

Rosen, a former supporter of the Socialist Workers party and also a candidate under Galloway for Respect isn't exactly typical is he.

Yes but Michael Rosen is very Jewish and proud of it!

 

Do you realise how ridiculous your post is? You start off by saying that it is not Israel that Galloway has a problem with, it's Jews. Then when it is pointed out that Galloway has shared many platforms with many Jews, you respond by saying "Yes but they are anti Israeli Jews. He won't share a platform with Zionist supporters of Israel"

 

So we are agreed then? Galloway doesn't have a problem with Jews, he has a problem with Zionist Jews who support the actions of the state of Israel in Palestine. In that case we are agreed that Galloway is not antisemitic he is antizionist.

 

Good, I'm glad we have that sorted out!

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3 hours ago, Robin-H said:

How many times does it have to be explained that debt can’t go down until the deficit becomes a surplus. Don’t pretend that decreasing the deficit so successfully isn’t a success because the debt still grew. 

cutting services that leave the most vulnerable suffering is not a success.

 

driving the economy to increase revenue would do the opposite of course.

 

but if austerity measures don’t make the tories  personally poorer - then why not.....

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2 hours ago, I1L2T3 said:

Did you miss the bit about the Tories missing every single deficit reduction target they set themselves for 7 years?

 

Dont answer. It’s clear that you did miss it.

Better to have an overly ambitious target and get close to it, than to set a low target and achieve it.

4 hours ago, Robin-H said:

How many times does it have to be explained that debt can’t go down until the deficit becomes a surplus. Don’t pretend that decreasing the deficit so successfully isn’t a success because the debt still grew. 

Indeed.

 

4 hours ago, makapaka said:

I’ve just explained it to you - the deficit is decreasing and the debt is increasing - so again - what makes you so proud of this achievement?

 

 

See Robin-H's post. I think you fundamentally don't understand the relationship between deficit and debt.

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