The Labour Party. All discussion here please

[andyofborg 11]

31 minutes ago, banjodeano said:

We cant let the media decide who should lead the labour party, we cant pick someone like Blair again just so the media will like him and see him as Tory lite, no we have to strive for a fair media  representation..

 

Why can't we have someone like Blair again.

 

He is the most successful election winner the party ever had. Admitedly he went a bit potty at the end but that happens to all politicians. The trick is to pension them off before they get too mad.

 

The answer of a failed left wing manifesto, isnt a more left wing manifesto in the hope you will reach some sort of place where you are so left wing people will vote for you.

 

Labour tried that in the 80s and that wasn't really a great success. 

 

Whether you like it or not, this is a pragmatically centre-right country. That doesn't mean they wont support a centre left government because they will and do so with pleasure but they need a reason too.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by andyofborg

[woodview 10]

1 hour ago, banjodeano said:

In my opinion, he is not shown in the same light as May, a lot of the articles they show on the BBC have an anti corbyn slant, please dont waste your time saying i am bias and i will not hear anything said against saint Jeremy ...yada yada yada...

but you only had to look at how Abbott was treated on QT, they were even making jokes about her to the audience before the show started...

this video explains it perfectly..

 

We cant let the media decide who should lead the labour party, we cant pick someone like Blair again just so the media will like him and see him as Tory lite, no we have to strive for a fair media  representation..

Can i ask you one question, you agree that the Tory party is in a mess, why do you never say anything against the Tories on the Tory thread, why only voice you anger on a labour party thread when they are not even in power?

Because to change something, you have to offer a better alternative.

I've voted Labour most times.

Also, I'm pragmatic, and dislike people and organisations who can only point out negatives. I want people who can say 'this is what we can offer, this is what we can do'.

I'm not seeing that.

Most people know what the Tories are. They also don't want what Labour is offering.

[Flanker7 20]

20 hours ago, woodview said:

Because to change something, you have to offer a better alternative.

I've voted Labour most times.

Also, I'm pragmatic, and dislike people and organisations who can only point out negatives. I want people who can say 'this is what we can offer, this is what we can do'.

I'm not seeing that.

Most people know what the Tories are. They also don't want what Labour is offering.

Andy of Borg - "Whether you like it or not, this is a pragmatically centre-right country. That doesn't mean they wont support a centre left government because they will and do so with pleasure but they need a reason too."

 

At last discussion of  ideas (almost) and not personalities or media bias. Banjo's defence is so disappointing trying to fight fire with fire, May's crap,  cons are greedy and self seeking. It won't work that way. 

Andyof Borg is mistaken , imo, we are a centre left country with our support of the NHS, a yearning for a nationalised rail network, the national trait of an aspiration to do the right thing and many other socalist  solutions. But, the magic word is PRAGMATIC .  Corbyn will never be that.

 

Labour need to to do as much as they can when they can in a pragmatic way. They don't harp on about abolishing the monarchy because there is no appitite for that.

 

First things first -  they need a pragmatic policy to square the circle of the EU.  Yes it is a protection system but its also the best we have in protection against global capitalism and all that means for workers rights, and health and safety of the people  (and of the world!). Labour and Corbyn  needs throw himself into a campaign that retains left ideals and measures - with a remain message. 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Flanker7

[Hotmale 1954 201]

I'm Labour through and through, a Socialist with a capital 'S', but Diane Abbot is one very good reason why Labour aren't doing too well in the Polls.

What with her inane ramblings and Corbyn's shilly shallying, it's no wonder Labour aren't surging on to power.

That said, does Corbyn really want to be Prime Minister of a country that is this deep in the doo doo?

I've long wanted Tom Watson or John McDonald to snatch the reins from Corbyn and drive Labour forward.

Corbyn has his place as number 2 (or 3) in my opinion, his intentions are favourable, but his actions are so namby pamby. He's not the stuff of leaders, but he does the other things very well indeed.

Abbott must be removed from the frontline of Labour. She does far more harm than good in my opinion.

As to an earlier reference about Blair's Premiership? No, Blairs Government was a light blue shade of Government. He was as Labour as John Major. His bowing to Privatisation and the private profiteering in our NHS tells me all I need to know about him. I'm told he came in to power worth around £2m and left worth around £25m. A Prime Minister's salary doesn't pay that much. I wonder where the 'windfall' came from?

 

Right wing, and Centre Right parties are the popular choice of many World countries.

When you consider that a large proportion of those Countries are struggling, I can't believe that people continue to support a system that is failing all over the shop.

The quest for profit and 'growth' is grinding the man and woman in the street in to the ground.

We're told to fend off Socialism and/or 'detractors' at all costs.

Global businesses, and the press that support them would say that wouldn't they?

 

Around Europe, the men and women in the street have been trashed by the EC and the Euro, and many would leave Europe tomorrow.

Unfortunately, their Governments won't have any of it.

I predict now that the EC will collapse fairly shortly.

The Italians don't want it, the Greeks don't want it, the Portuguese don't want it and the French and Germans, without us, cannot afford it.  

  

Edited February 4, 2019 by Hotmale 1954

[geared 318]

While I agree that Corbyn is a crap leader and won't be any good as PM, if you think the EU is going to fall apart you're abit deluded.

 

I'd bet my house and everything I own that they are still here in ten years time.  There is a very real danger that we end up as a warning to other counties about the perils of leaving.

Edited February 4, 2019 by geared

[janie48 98]

9 minutes ago, geared said:

While I agree that Corbyn is a crap leader and won't be any good as PM, if you think the EU is going to fall apart you're abit deluded.

 

I'd bet my house and everything I own that they are still here in ten years time.  There is a very real danger that we end up as a warning to other counties about the perils of leaving.

I agree with you about the future of the EU. They have only to see the mess we're in now with probably worse to come in the future to realise how fortunate they are.

[Hotmale 1954 201]

The medium sized EC countries were all in a better social state than they are now.

Yes, maybe the EC may last another 10 years, but it won't last.

The people are realising what the end game of the EC 'could' be and are gearing up to prevent it with all their heart and soul.

If their Government doesn't agree, then they'll change their Government.

Many would like to change now. Not enough yet, but the number is growing.

[Hotmale 1954 201]

17 hours ago, janie48 said:

I agree with you about the future of the EU. They have only to see the mess we're in now with probably worse to come in the future to realise how fortunate they are.

The mess we're in now is down to poor leadership since 1979. Brexit has nothing at all to do with the Labour Party, and nothing to do with food banks, low wages, high crime rates, raging Capitalism, Social upheaval, low Police number, shocking Council services, poor schools and the serious decline of the NHS.

Those are all down to a Tory Government (and Blair's pretend Labour Government)

Putting money before people cannot and will not work.

[Hotmale 1954 201]

17 hours ago, geared said:

While I agree that Corbyn is a crap leader and won't be any good as PM, if you think the EU is going to fall apart you're abit deluded.

 

I'd bet my house and everything I own that they are still here in ten years time.  There is a very real danger that we end up as a warning to other counties about the perils of leaving.

The perils of leaving are what exactly?

Governments behave like greedy little children.

I know Tariffs will be introduced. But Why?

If the Finnish wish to buy stuff from us, why does some childish spoiler have to 'introduce' a Tariff?

Do people think for one minute that a Tariff on BMW cars will bother BMW one little bit?

A £50k BMW goes up to £52k. Big deal. The CEO's and their ilk will still have a blue one, a black one, a silver one and one each for the wife and kids.

Tariffs are not needed, not justified and are just another barrier to what our beloved Government clammer for and promote all day long. Free Trade.

No matter which Government is in power, it's inevitable that jobs will dwindle as time goes on. Automation, AI and lethargy will be the norm and having a job will become a burden instead of a nescessity.

Clinging on to every last drop of profit and employment is really peeing in to the wind.

Big business knows it and Governments know it, but by God they'll keep going right to the very end.

 

 

 

[Robin-H 11]

I wonder if this will be in the impetus some Labour remain MPs need to form a breakaway party..

 

https://www.theredroar.com/2019/02/exclusive-corbyn-branded-eu-military-frankenstein-and-trashed-second-irish-referendum-in-unearthed-footage/

 

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Robin-H

[geared 318]

6 minutes ago, Hotmale 1954 said:

I know Tariffs will be introduced. But Why?

 

because when we drop out of the EU we also drop out of it's free trade area??

 

This should not come as a shock to anyone, it was very clear this would happen, we will not be in the club so therefore we cannot have free trade, not until we negotiate a separate FTA.

It's not big business getting it's nose wet, the tariffs are set and collected by the Government.

 

5 minutes ago, Hotmale 1954 said:

The perils of leaving are what exactly?

I know several people in academic research who have already found money for projects disappear as it was from the EU, thats them out of a job as well as the various people they would have employed.

 

Many councils are worried about budget shortfalls due to the loss of access to EU grants for many projects.

 

Jaguar, Nissan and Airbus have all signalled loss of jobs or loss of future investment and jobs linked to Brexit.

Various city and financial jobs have been moved to the continent from our country.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by geared

[Hotmale 1954 201]

So it's easy.

Extend the free trade area to include the whole world.

That was easy wasn't it?

Why have a trade war between countries and continents?

Leave that to complete idiots like Trump to play with.

With luck, he'll be gone soon and normality (which amongst most politicians isn't good anyway) will resume.

If Portugal wants to freely trade with us, who are Germany, France and Italy to tell them they can't?

Believe me, if  Portugal want to sell fruit and veg to us, they will do.

If their trade reduces significantly enough, they'll be very keen to leave the club like we will have done.

The Italians will be very quick to tell the Germans where to get off if they restrict or reduce the number of Italian goods coming to the UK.

And finally, you don't mess with the French and the Greeks when it comes to 'changing' their Governments minds.

More countries will follow.

If,  say Spain leaves the EC, as is quite possible, and the UK buys ALL it's imported fruit, veg and similar goods from them, the rest of Europe would soon be knocking on Germany's door.

 

I've just heard that the 'leaders' of the EC are very keen to form a European army. They're on with it now.

I wonder why that is?

Are they maybe expecting a mass revolt from their European citizens.

  

Edited February 5, 2019 by Hotmale 1954