The Labour Party. All discussion here please

[Mister M 1,609]

7 minutes ago, Hots on said:

Corbyn goes against the grain a little too much, more than I think the country is ready for.

 

If however he was to get in, I believe there would be a military coup in this country.

It's interesting that many of Corbyn's policies such as raising the top rate of tax and nationalization of railways were regarded as centre ground politics in the postwar era - the so called 'Butskellite' consensus. 

I think the fear has been ramped up to a point where anything that isn't Thatcherite, privatising, and deregualting is abnormal and dangerous. 

[Robin-H 11]

6 minutes ago, Mister M said:

It's interesting that many of Corbyn's policies such as raising the top rate of tax and nationalization of railways were regarded as centre ground politics in the postwar era - the so called 'Butskellite' consensus. 

I think the fear has been ramped up to a point where anything that isn't Thatcherite, privatising, and deregualting is abnormal and dangerous. 

Because most people learn from their mistakes. 

[Mister M 1,609]

3 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

Because most people learn from their mistakes. 

Really? So why, for example, have many of the problems caused by lack of regulation in various sectors not been rectified?

[Robin-H 11]

1 minute ago, Mister M said:

Really? So why, for example, have many of the problems caused by lack of regulation in various sectors not been rectified?

Not everything can happen overnight. Many things have been rectified. Also, there may  not be a large enough consensus on what problems are big enough to need rectifying. 

[Top Cats Hat 10]

1 hour ago, Robin-H said:

 Also, there may  not be a large enough consensus on what problems are big enough to need rectifying. 

Really?

 

Despite the domination of the news by the Brexit mess, hardly a day goes by without seeing a story about the NHS, violent crime, appalling train services, universal credit or large corporations and individuals not paying their way.

 

That's five for a start!

 

[Robin-H 11]

14 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Really?

 

Despite the domination of the news by the Brexit mess, hardly a day goes by without seeing a story about the NHS, violent crime, appalling train services, universal credit or large corporations and individuals not paying their way.

 

That's five for a start!

 

Five examples that perfectly illustrate my point. What are the consensus views of what should be done in each of those cases? Not a left wing or right wing view, or even a centre view, but a consensus view. 

 

Additionally, things are being done for all those things you mentioned. Change has happened to mitigate the worst aspects or attempt to create longer term improvement. The answer is not to go back to methods that have been tried and failed. 

Edited January 30, 2019 by Robin-H

[phil752 10]

some one enlighten me, what is all the references at the debate yesterday and today's PMQ about the Penistone MP?

[Mister M 1,609]

1 hour ago, Robin-H said:

Five examples that perfectly illustrate my point. What are the consensus views of what should be done in each of those cases? Not a left wing or right wing view, or even a centre view, but a consensus view. 

 

Additionally, things are being done for all those things you mentioned. Change has happened to mitigate the worst aspects or attempt to create longer term improvement. The answer is not to go back to methods that have been tried and failed. 

In the last 40 years there has been broadly a bipartisan consensus about the role of government, individual, market and state - some call it the Greenspan doctrine, others call it the 'New Right'. In its purest form it has been tested to destruction, and its principles have been applied to sectors that would seem to be are straight out of a Kafka novel, the aim of which is summed up in the Stalinist phrase:  'economics is the method, the object is to change the soul'

The sum result of which saw the financial crash in 2008.

You're right, not everything that was tried from 1945 - 1979 worked; but then not everything tried from 1979 - 2019 worked either. In spite of the misrepresentation of Corbyn by his enemies, he doesn't want to take the country back to 1945 - 1979; but thankfully at least he's recognising that the consensus in politics since 1979 where the state is merely the ringmaster and market forces are let rip has failed. 

It's a shame more politicians aren't as vocal about the failures of the recent past.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Mister M

[WiseOwl182 10]

1 hour ago, Mister M said:

In the last 40 years there has been broadly a bipartisan consensus about the role of government, individual, market and state - some call it the Greenspan doctrine, others call it the 'New Right'. In its purest form it has been tested to destruction, and its principles have been applied to sectors that would seem to be are straight out of a Kafka novel, the aim of which is summed up in the Stalinist phrase:  'economics is the method, the object is to change the soul'

The sum result of which saw the financial crash in 2008.

You're right, not everything that was tried from 1945 - 1979 worked; but then not everything tried from 1979 - 2019 worked either. In spite of the misrepresentation of Corbyn by his enemies, he doesn't want to take the country back to 1945 - 1979; but thankfully at least he's recognising that the consensus in politics since 1979 where the state is merely the ringmaster and market forces are let rip has failed. 

It's a shame more politicians aren't as vocal about the failures of the recent past.

And yet, if we're in the EU, we can't nationalise industries. You must be conflicted inside?

Edited January 30, 2019 by WiseOwl182

[Mister Gee 812]

15 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

And yet, if we're in the EU, we can't privatise industries. You must be conflicted inside?

Don't you mean nationalize?

 

[WiseOwl182 10]

4 minutes ago, Mister Gee said:

Don't you mean nationalize?

 

I did indeed, thanks, but the point still stands. Although I actually meant "nationalise". 

 

The whole concept of the EU is traditionally right of centre, and wanting membership was originally a right of centre position to hold. Somewhere a long the line, the roles were reversed.

 

People like you and Corbyn must therefore be very conflicted deep inside.

Edited January 30, 2019 by WiseOwl182

[Mister Gee 812]

6 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

I did indeed, thanks, but the point still stands. Although I actually meant "nationalise". 

 

The whole concept of the EU is traditionally right of centre, and wanting membership was originally a right of centre position to hold. Somewhere a long the line, the roles were reversed.

 

People like you and Corbyn must therefore be very conflicted deep inside.

That's a bit strong, I only pointed out your error.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Mister Gee