The Labour Party. All discussion here please

[Robin-H 11]

Agreed. Hence the "Who will replace Labour ... thread and poll".

Although I have trouble with the description of the current crop of Conservatives as "Hard Right" as the overall tax system is rather progressive and the tax to GDP ratio is quite high in historical terms.

 

I agree - I'm not sure in what way the Conservative party are 'hard right'? I would still say they occupy the centre ground.

[BHRemovals 10]

The minimum wage should have 10 per hour years ago

[Bob Arctor 11]

The minimum wage should have 10 per hour years ago

 

Before the introduction of the NMW 'business leaders' were predicting massive job losses as a result, which just didn't happen. And when Osborne introduced the fake 'living wage' we were told the same, including by some people who are Brexiters and now have to try to tell us that the new NMW is doing economic damage while also saying that there is no economic damage post-Brexit, which must take some doing. Doubtless they will line up to prophecy the economic carnage that would follow an actual national living wage, with the same outcome.

[tinfoilhat 11]

Before the introduction of the NMW 'business leaders' were predicting massive job losses as a result, which just didn't happen. And when Osborne introduced the fake 'living wage' we were told the same, including by some people who are Brexiters and now have to try to tell us that the new NMW is doing economic damage while also saying that there is no economic damage post-Brexit, which must take some doing. Doubtless they will line up to prophecy the economic carnage that would follow an actual national living wage, with the same outcome.

 

Minimum wage wasn't a jump for a lot of employers. £10 will be a jump. Some small businesses will suffer - it's inevitable. Some bigger companies will push jobs abroad. Others will put prices up so there's no real world difference.

 

Which, in a round about way, gets me to my point. It won't make a difference. Housing costs will still be huge and go up at a percentage far away from interest rates, as will fuel costs. Minimum/living wage won't keep up with that.

[Phanerothyme 12]

There's also a wage cascade effect. The people on £10ph need a commensurate bump - and so on until you reach a gap sufficiently large to absorb it.

 

But on the flip side, all that extra disposable income...

[the_bloke 17]

If you actually read his press, it's not a £10 minimum wage in the same way as the proposed £9 wage is; it's a £10 'real world' minimum wage. Basically, what a tenner now will be equivalent to in 2020. It could be as much as £15 ph.

 

The cynic in me says this has to be done to make sure that all the low earners pay tax in order to fund whatever spending madness Labour has planned if they get into power.

[*_ash_* 88]

I watched McDonnell earlier.

 

In short: Mickey Mouse economics.

 

In slightly longer: These left people in charge would be dangerous economically (these days) and it's strikingly close to far-right ideology, the only difference really in their ideology is one leaves millions dead, and the other leaves millions of people poor but thinking they're doing well when NMW increases, and they'll pay the rest off with something like 'Tax Credits and Child Credits' or 'a new Rich bar-stard credits' which claims to take off the very rich and give to the poor (but in reality, they'll avoid it and we'll all pay for it!) .

 

 

 

Either can be avoided by never voting for them. We need a viable opposition at all times, whoever is in power, and we're not going to get it from this man, or Corbyn or his supporters. A new party is needed, or an alliance. I said these lot were dead when they tried Ed, shame they didn't move on then instead of leaving the country in crisis.

 

-

 

edit

 

also, I agreed with all of this post.

 

Minimum wage wasn't a jump for a lot of employers. £10 will be a jump. Some small businesses will suffer - it's inevitable. Some bigger companies will push jobs abroad. Others will put prices up so there's no real world difference.

 

Which, in a round about way, gets me to my point. It won't make a difference. Housing costs will still be huge and go up at a percentage far away from interest rates, as will fuel costs. Minimum/living wage won't keep up with that.

Edited September 26, 2016 by *_ash_*

[Bob Arctor 11]

Everyone on here seems to agree that capitalism is unable to pay everyone a decent wage. That's quite an indictment.

[Robin-H 11]

Everyone on here seems to agree that capitalism is unable to pay everyone a decent wage. That's quite an indictment.

 

What alternative do you suggest?

[Bob Arctor 11]

What alternative do you suggest?

 

There are lots of long term alternatives I could suggest but that would be for another thread. In the short term I suggest that everyone drop the dishonesty and selfishness and accept that people other than themselves should also get a decent wage. As I predicted, the thread is full of people claiming a hike in the NMW will be a disaster for jobs, despite that not happening the last two times it was predicted.

[unbeliever 10]

There are lots of long term alternatives I could suggest but that would be for another thread. In the short term I suggest that everyone drop the dishonesty and selfishness and accept that people other than themselves should also get a decent wage. As I predicted, the thread is full of people claiming a hike in the NMW will be a disaster for jobs, despite that not happening the last two times it was predicted.

 

The level of the minimum wage has always been set by both sides of the political divide so as to minimise the job destruction. That's why it's been okay.

Labour will either fudge this promise such that it doesn't apply to everybody and then it'll be okay, or they'll implement it and then blame the job destruction on somebody else. You know bankers or something. Actually they'll just lose the election so they don't have to implement it anyway.

 

I would love to legislate to give the working poor a massive raise. Trouble is they'll end up unemployed.

 

Is there any detail on this promise? At what age does it apply, what exceptions are there to be etc.

[L00b 441]

I agree - I'm not sure in what way the Conservative party are 'hard right'? I would still say they occupy the centre ground.

For now.

 

May, her cohorts and the current Tory political play are giving out all the warning signs/noises of a slow veer to reactionary-cum-neoliberalist policies.

 

Labour's ongoing implosion, UKIP's irrelevance and the LibDem/Greens' ongoing desert walk, are effectively surrendering the role of real opposition to factions within the Tory party.

 

Link provided in case there was any need to highlight Labours' now-averred political irrelevance.

Everyone on here seems to agree that capitalism is unable to pay everyone a decent wage. That's quite an indictment.

It is?

 

When has capitalism ever paid everyone a decent wage?

 

Don't forget: capitalism is the exploitation of man by man.

 

Socialism is the exact contrary

Edited September 27, 2016 by L00b