The Labour Party. All discussion here please

[mossdog 10]

The idea that all people could be equal died very quickly nearly 100 years ago, about 10 years into the Soviet experiment. They tried to keep the facade going and a few other countries tried it was never going to work basically because of human nature.

 

I'm a lefty but that doesn't mean I have to be against capitalism. In fact I don't have an issue with it as a concept at all. Some people will work and try harder than others and they deserve to expect rewards. At the same time we know that if we allow unbridled capitalism then bad things will almost certainly happen. That's where the socialist bit comes in for me - it's about having true democracy, fairness in society, getting a balance between social responsibility with the state stepping in when appropriate while not inhibiting capitalism unduly. It allows for winners and losers, for people to become wealthy through their own efforts, but makes sure those who lose out in the process (or maybe can't participate fully) don't get their faces ground into the dirt.

 

That's the page Corbyn is on. We'll see this soon enough.

..........excellent post!

[ghost rider 10]

The idea that all people could be equal died very quickly nearly 100 years ago, about 10 years into the Soviet experiment. They tried to keep the facade going and a few other countries tried it was never going to work basically because of human nature.

 

I'm a lefty but that doesn't mean I have to be against capitalism. In fact I don't have an issue with it as a concept at all. Some people will work and try harder than others and they deserve to expect rewards. At the same time we know that if we allow unbridled capitalism then bad things will almost certainly happen. That's where the socialist bit comes in for me - it's about having true democracy, fairness in society, getting a balance between social responsibility with the state stepping in when appropriate while not inhibiting capitalism unduly. It allows for winners and losers, for people to become wealthy through their own efforts, but makes sure those who lose out in the process (or maybe can't participate fully) don't get their faces ground into the dirt.

 

That's the page Corbyn is on. We'll see this soon enough.

Cheers for the explanation,i hear what you are saying and the idea that the poor are looked after while leaving the ones who want to better themselves to be able too.It was at one time I believe a conservative philosophy which I think has got lost with time.I know Harold Macmillan believed it and my dad admired him for what he did even though my dad is a died in the wool labour man.I need to know what Jeremy Corbyn would do if he was prime minister before I could pass judgement as to whether he would make the country a fairer place for everybody without making the ordinary working class/middle class individual financially worse off and without lowering their quality of life to which most of us have worked hard and long hours to achieve.At the moment I am not convinced and I am very wary of his intentions at the moment.The sums do not add up for me.

[I1L2T3 10]

What do people think about senior Labour figures resigning from front bench politics?

 

IMO it is pretty disgusting and self-serving. They have been elected as MPs for a party that they knew would form the official opposition. They knew before the election they were regarded as senior figures in the party and integral to providing opposition from the front benches.

 

By playing a role in providing a strong opposition they do the rest of the country a service in holding the government to account but some of the people best able to do so have walked away. they have effectively gone on a work to rule.

 

IMO they should be considered for deselection by their constituency parties.

[ghost rider 10]

What do people think about senior Labour figures resigning from front bench politics?

 

IMO it is pretty disgusting and self-serving. They have been elected as MPs for a party that they knew would form the official opposition. They knew before the election they were regarded as senior figures in the party and integral to providing opposition from the front benches.

 

By playing a role in providing a strong opposition they do the rest of the country a service in holding the government to account but some of the people best able to do so have walked away. they have effectively gone on a work to rule.

 

IMO they should be considered for deselection by their constituency parties.

It looks to me as though they are setting out their plans to destroy him from the outset and probably do not want to be on the frontline if it starts to get tough.It is a bit like a football team trying to undermine their manager to get him sacked because they do not like the way he runs the team.

[ANGELFIRE1 10]

It's great fun though, watching the Liebour party tear itself apart only a few hours after JC is elected as leader. Looks like our Nige and Ukip will be the main opposition to boy Dave Cameroon and gang.

[I1L2T3 10]

Cheers for the explanation,i hear what you are saying and the idea that the poor are looked after while leaving the ones who want to better themselves to be able too.It was at one time I believe a conservative philosophy which I think has got lost with time.I know Harold Macmillan believed it and my dad admired him for what he did even though my dad is a died in the wool labour man.I need to know what Jeremy Corbyn would do if he was prime minister before I could pass judgement as to whether he would make the country a fairer place for everybody without making the ordinary working class/middle class individual financially worse off and without lowering their quality of life to which most of us have worked hard and long hours to achieve.At the moment I am not convinced and I am very wary of his intentions at the moment.The sums do not add up for me.

 

Everything I posted is entirely compatible with conservatism. In fact it was a similar brand of conservatism that attracted a substantial blue collar vote for a long time.

 

The current Tories can pretend to be a workers party but they aren't offering the same thing. Like you say it has been lost with time.

 

---------- Post added 12-09-2015 at 21:28 ----------

 

It looks to me as though they are setting out their plans to destroy him from the outset and probably do not want to be on the frontline if it starts to get tough.It is a bit like a football team trying to undermine their manager to get him sacked because they do not like the way he runs the team.

 

Not often a manager loses the dressing room before the team have even kicked a ball!!

 

---------- Post added 12-09-2015 at 21:31 ----------

 

It's great fun though, watching the Liebour party tear itself apart only a few hours after JC is elected as leader. Looks like our Nige and Ukip will be the main opposition to boy Dave Cameroon and gang.

 

It's early days but today hasn't gone quite how I thought it would. He's done two pretty much unthinkable things that the other contenders just wouldn't have done: gone straight down to a refugees welcome party and sung The Red Flag with Billy Bragg.

 

I was laughing so hard this afternoon. Genuinely funny but in a kind of not very good way.

[ghost rider 10]

Everything I posted is entirely compatible with conservatism. In fact it was a similar brand of conservatism that attracted a substantial blue collar vote for a long time.

 

The current Tories can pretend to be a workers party but they aren't offering the same thing. Like you say it has been lost with time.

 

I always thought conservatism had no place in Sheffield but I found out relatively recently that we had a Conservative council in 1968.I was quite shocked.I can only guess that Harold Wilson taking free milk away from schoolchildren and closure for most of the railways maybe had something to do with it.Its a funny old thing politics,every now and again it throws up a surprise result no one was expecting.

[Hots on 10]

What do people think about senior Labour figures resigning from front bench politics?

 

.

 

They don't want t be associated/tainted by Corbyn as it will detrimentally affect their future company directorship destiny's.

[I1L2T3 10]

They don't want t be associated/tainted by Corbyn as it will detrimentally affect their future company directorship destiny's.

 

Indeed they are thinking about themselves. 100%

 

Not thinking about their party or their country.

 

Would you go to work and start working to rule, only doing 50% of what you were capable of, just because you didn't like your boss? I guess you could try it but in a company you wouldn't last very long.

 

These characters have walked away from serving their country just because they can and because they know they are effectively on a 5 year contract that nobody can terminate except them.

 

Absolutely disgusting really.

[Happ Hazzard 10]

Just got an email from the Tories with this.

[Halibut 12]

Just got an email from the Tories with this.

 

They're clearly rattled.

[Happ Hazzard 10]

He needs to address it though. Especially the being friendly with Hamas and Hezbollah bit. It's weird, if he came out strongly against immigration he'd be a shoe-in to win. It has never made any sense for Labour to be pro-immigration and it's something that would serve as a clear "crossing the Rubicon" moment to differentiate the party now from "New Labour".