The Labour Party. All discussion here please

[alchresearch 214]

Enough is enough, time for lame duck Corbyn to go.  Lets start 2020 with new leaders in all parties.

 

Labour backed by fewer than one-in-five as they slump to fourth in YouGov poll

Jeremy Corbyn's party drop to 18% behind the Conservatives (24%), Brexit Party (23%) and Liberal Democrats (20%).

[JamesR123 0]

On 30/06/2019 at 12:56, Top Cats Hat said:

Since when have government civil servant’s been Corbyn’s acolytes?

 

Are you going to condemn the story? Either the Times has fabricated the story or civil servants are fabricating stories and ‘leaking’ them to the Times. Either way, do you think that this is appropriate behaviour in 2019?

Or the civil servants are telling the truth.

[Top Cats Hat 10]

47 minutes ago, alchresearch said:

Enough is enough, time for lame duck Corbyn to go.  Lets start 2020 with new leaders in all parties.

 

Labour backed by fewer than one-in-five as they slump to fourth in YouGov poll

Jeremy Corbyn's party drop to 18% behind the Conservatives (24%), Brexit Party (23%) and Liberal Democrats (20%).

I agree.

 

If Corbyn becomes a ‘born again Remainer’, no one will believe him for a second so for Labour to become a Remain party it needs to ditch him.

[alchresearch 214]

Yep.  Guardian posted this last week:

 

Quote

Not any more. These days, when Corbyn comes out with his “definitely/maybe/people’s vote” guff, the majority groan, jeer or say they no longer trust him and won’t vote for Labour. Worse, sometimes people don’t even react or care. Remain supporters have learned how to live without Labour.

No doubt that's why the Lib Dems did so well.

 

And this is a good read today:

 

The Tories are there to be demolished. But Labour are too inept to do it

A crashing economy, two woeful prospective PMs, a Brexit crisis ... yet Corbyn’s dithering has let the Tories off the hook

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/04/tories-demolished-labour-inept-jeremy-corbyn-brexit-polls

 

You can ignore all the anti-semitism business (most of Corbyn's followers do anyway), he's been a weak leader in so many other areas.

Edited July 4, 2019 by alchresearch

[Top Cats Hat 10]

5 minutes ago, alchresearch said:

No doubt that's why the Lib Dems did so well.

The Labour and the Tory vote collapsed in the €uro elections because many Tory voters voted for Farage and many Labour voters voted Lib Dem or Green.

 

The recent surveys and forecasts that show beyond doubt that Labour is losing more votes to the Lib Dems than Farage have leftCorbyn completely exposed as a Brexiteer. 

[bendix 10]

On ‎29‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 13:22, banjodeano said:

 

Gonna throw it out there again, can anyone tell me what he actually said that was antisemitic?

It's a fair question.  The likes of Williamson et al are usually clever enough to avoid saying anything that can be deemed directly anti-semitic, but as this piece in JC expresses articulately, he has a long history of jew baiting.

 

https://www.thejc.com/comment/analysis/what-exactly-has-labour-mp-chris-williamson-done-to-offend-jews-here-s-a-long-list-1.485890

 

Would each one on their own be considering anti-semitic?  Probably not.  But when he has such a long track record of making similar comments over and over again, you can understand the concern.

 

It's odd how people can be anti-semitic without even realising it.  I was listening to LBC this week, and a young Indian lad who supports Labour came on and vehemently denied there was an issue in the party, arguing that it was all whipped up by (I kid you not), "the jewish owned mainstream media."

13 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

The Labour and the Tory vote collapsed in the €uro elections because many Tory voters voted for Farage and many Labour voters voted Lib Dem or Green.

 

The recent surveys and forecasts that show beyond doubt that Labour is losing more votes to the Lib Dems than Farage have leftCorbyn completely exposed as a Brexiteer. 

This is true.  Although the influx to the Lib Dems is also coming from the other side.  I've voted conservative for 30 years.  I've recently switched to Lib Dems.  My best friends here are life long educated  Labour voters.  One voted Green and one voted Lib Dem.

[Top Cats Hat 10]

2 minutes ago, bendix said:

I was listening to LBC this week, and a young Indian lad who supports Labour came on and vehemently denied there was an issue in the party, arguing that it was all whipped up by (I kid you not), "the jewish owned mainstream media."

I would suggest that that has more to do with social media than the Labour Party.

 

Phrases like that come from the far-right and various crank white supremacist conspiraloons. I have never heard a Labour Party supporter or indeed anyone on the left of British politics used a phrase like that other than in a critique or racism and fascism.

[bendix 10]

Just now, Top Cats Hat said:

I would suggest that that has more to do with social media than the Labour Party.

 

Phrases like that come from the far-right and various crank white supremacist conspiraloons. I have never heard a Labour Party supporter or indeed anyone on the left of British politics used a phrase like that other than in a critique or racism and fascism.

And yet it was a Labour supporter from Birmingham.  

 

But let's not get onto my theory of how the far right and the far left have converged in recent years.  I know that gets you going  😉

[Top Cats Hat 10]

18 minutes ago, bendix said:

And yet it was a Labour supporter from Birmingham.  

 

But let's not get onto my theory of how the far right and the far left have converged in recent years.  I know that gets you going  😉

No, it was an anonymous caller on a radio station.

 

Your horseshoe theory doesn’t get me going as it has little merit and it is a trope of political centrism which is wheeled out every time the centre ground is deserted. 😉

[bendix 10]

19 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

No, it was an anonymous caller on a radio station.

 

 

yeah, probably planted there by the jewish controlled illuminati.

 

Here we are in the post-truth, post-fact, 'I don't believe anything but I feel everything' world which makes rational debate meaningless.  It's all very sad.   

 

 

Anyway, back to those polls.  I would be interested to hear from some of the sensible Labour supporters (I think that applies to TCH only to be honest) what they think Labour needs to do to get back on track.   Do you think there will ever be a time when the members who voted Corbyn leader for what seemed like good reasons at the time, will now have to reflect that we are in a different political world now and a different answer might be needed?

 

Edited July 4, 2019 by bendix

[Top Cats Hat 10]

32 minutes ago, bendix said:

Here we are in the post-truth, post-fact, 'I don't believe anything but I feel everything' world which makes rational debate meaningless.  It's all very sad.   

Quite the opposite.

 

In a post-fact world, it is more important than ever to be rigorous about who says what, and where. Anyone can ring a radio station, anyone can open a Twitter account and anyone can post on facebook. All we really know about them is that they can type in English and have access to a computer. Nothing else. If we are going to criticise a member or a supporter of a political Party (any political party or organisation) we need to know that the person being criticised is a member of that organisation. ‘Claims to be’ isn’t good enough.

 

The reasons people voted for Corbyn in 2015 have not changed. What has come to light since then though, is that on the biggest issue our country has faced since World War Two, Corbyn, due to adherence to a discredited ultra-left Bennite position on the EU, finds himself on the side of a group of extreme laissez-faire capitalists and against the interests of the working class.

 

I have said repeatedly that the election of a pro-Remain, left-wing Labour Party would cause such a boost on world markets at the prospect of an end to Brexit uncertainty, that Corbyn would have all the cash he needed (including the restoration of Sterling to pre-June 2016 levels) to carry out as much nationalisation and infrastructure investment as promised.

 

It is inevitable that the election of a left-wing Labour government was always going to cause jitters among the capitalist class (the famous ‘flight of capital’ and ‘run on the pound’). But the prospect of an end to the damage done and the damage forecast by Brexit would not only counter the ‘run on Sterling’ but would in fact boost Sterling, possibly higher than at any time. 

 

This is an absolutely once in a lifetime opportunity for a left-wing Labour government to not only be elected, but to have the liquidity to carry out all of its election promises, maybe without even having to tax the rich to do it. If Corbyn blows this opportunity (which I fear he already has), he will never be forgiven.

[Robin-H 11]

1 hour ago, Top Cats Hat said:

No, it was an anonymous caller on a radio station.

 

Your horseshoe theory doesn’t get me going as it has little merit and it is a trope of political centrism which is wheeled out every time the centre ground is deserted. 😉

Is Bendix a pseudonym for Jean-Pierre Faye?