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The Labour Party. All discussion here please

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2 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

He didn't make a comment, he answered a question honestly that was asked of him.

 

He is not a Conservative, he supports the working class not the ruling class. What was foremost in his mind was that Churchill was a Tory Home Secretary who sent troops into a mining town during the 1910-11 rather than as a Conservative War Leader. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Can you explain to me why in 2019 we should still be trying to protect our 'elders and betters', the aristocracy and the monarchy? Haven't we been bowing and scraping and tugging our forelocks long enough?

 

It's a British thing. 

 

While ever we have a monarchy and an aristocracy,  we will have a class system that defers to inherited wealth and position, regardless of  actual ability and achievement. It underpins the British way of life even today.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Can you explain to me why in 2019 we should still be trying to protect our 'elders and betters', the aristocracy and the monarchy? Haven't we been bowing and scraping and tugging our forelocks long enough?

 

So which of those are you classing Churchill to be in  - aristocracy or monarchy?

 

There's a reason he's often voted Greatest Briton of all time, or at least in the top three.  Its quite sad that you need this pointing out, and even sadder you defend someone like McDonnell. 

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3 hours ago, alchresearch said:

So which of those are you classing Churchill to be in  - aristocracy or monarchy?

 

There's a reason he's often voted Greatest Briton of all time, or at least in the top three.  Its quite sad that you need this pointing out, and even sadder you defend someone like McDonnell. 

Definitely aristocracy, son of the Lord Randolph Churchill and grandson of the 7th Duke of Marlborough. I would have thought anyone who upholds the right of free speech would defend McDonnell.

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16 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

 

 

Can you explain to me why in 2019 we should still be trying to protect our 'elders and betters', the aristocracy and the monarchy? Haven't we been bowing and scraping and tugging our forelocks long enough?

 

Perhaps it's because in 2019 most of us don't object to having a monarchy and aristocracy, as long as they don't have the power to issue orders. 

 

In society today its those inverted snobs that look down on anyone who has less,  that should bother us. 

 

Edited by janie48

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4 hours ago, alchresearch said:

and even sadder you defend someone like McDonnell. 

It all depends on your point of view.

 

Tory politician vs someone standing up for striking miners. No contest! 😀

 

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Interesting to read this from the International Churchill Society about the reason for troops.  More to do with looters than innocent strikers.
 

Quote

In 1911, a strike began in the coal mines at Rhondda in early November of the same year. It arose out of a dispute concerning wage differentials in the working of hard and soft seams. Many men were involved, estimates varying between 25,000 and 30,000, and many different pits were affected.

 

There was looting and the local authorities appealed to the War Office for troops. On hearing of this, Churchill as Home Secretary consulted the Secretary of War, Haldane, and they agreed instead to send police, but to hold some troops in reserve near by.


Churchill’s whole conduct in the matter has since been grotesquely distorted, and it has become a part of socialist demonology that Churchill sent troops who fired upon the miners of Tonypandy. Socialist propagandists have sought to make martyrs of the miners of Tonypandy comparable to those of Tolpuddle in 1834.

https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/myths/striking-welsh-coal-miners/

 

And a BBC link:

 

Quote

Troops were sent onto the streets to control striking miners who wrecked town centre shops and mine-owners' property.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-26601738

 

Please explain how looting and smashing up shops and houses has anything to do with striking?

Edited by alchresearch

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7 Labour MPs leave the party.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6716379/Will-Labour-split-hours-Anti-Corbyn-rebels-poised-make-statement.html

 

A group of seven Labour MPs led by Luciana Berger and Chuka Umunna quit the party today vowing to 'change politics' by creating a new 'Independent Group'.

The MPs are all arch-critics of Jeremy Corbyn furious at his handling of Brexit and refusal to back a second referendum. 

The group also includes Chris Leslie, Angela Smith, Gavin Shuker, Ann Coffey and Mike Gapes.

Opening an explosive press conference in Westminster, Ms Berger said she had become 'ashamed and embarrassed' to be in Corbyn's Labour.

She said Labour had become 'institutionally anti-Semitic' and said she was 'leaving behind a culture of bullying and intimidation'.

Former shadow chancellor Mr Leslie said Labour had been 'taken over' by the 'machine politics of the hard left' - insisting the party had left him and not that his values had changed. 

 

 

How many more will follow?

 

With the Labour party even more fragmented than the Tories,  will we ever get a left / left of centre Government again?

 

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Makes no difference how more many will follow.  Stubborn Corbyn will just dig his heels in further at that desperate attempt to cling to power.

 

He ignores his fellow MPs and the public opinion polls because he's blinded by the cult-like status that's been built around him from students and his Momentum mob.

 

Unless the rest of the party get behind this breakaway group Labour support will just become even further fractured and the Tories will be in power for much of the 2020s.

Edited by alchresearch

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1 minute ago, alchresearch said:

Makes no difference how more many will follow.  Stubborn Corbyn will just dig his heels in further at that desperate attempt to cling to power.

 

He ignores his fellow MPs and the public opinion polls because he's blinded by the cult-like status that's been built around him from students and his Momentum mob.

Agreed, however his puppet masters may get rid of him (I hope not though), and every Labour MP that defects weakens his chances of ever getting in to power. A good day for politics.

 

Although some Tories may also defect.

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15 minutes ago, convert said:

7 Labour MPs leave the party.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6716379/Will-Labour-split-hours-Anti-Corbyn-rebels-poised-make-statement.html

 

A group of seven Labour MPs led by Luciana Berger and Chuka Umunna quit the party today vowing to 'change politics' by creating a new 'Independent Group'.

The MPs are all arch-critics of Jeremy Corbyn furious at his handling of Brexit and refusal to back a second referendum. 

The group also includes Chris Leslie, Angela Smith, Gavin Shuker, Ann Coffey and Mike Gapes.

Opening an explosive press conference in Westminster, Ms Berger said she had become 'ashamed and embarrassed' to be in Corbyn's Labour.

She said Labour had become 'institutionally anti-Semitic' and said she was 'leaving behind a culture of bullying and intimidation'.

Former shadow chancellor Mr Leslie said Labour had been 'taken over' by the 'machine politics of the hard left' - insisting the party had left him and not that his values had changed. 

 

 

How many more will follow?

 

With the Labour party even more fragmented than the Tories,  will we ever get a left / left of centre Government again?

 

Looks like the dung has hit the fan.

 

Angel1.

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What happens to their constituencies they are supposed to represent, most of the people of Stocksbridge and Penistone voted for a labour candidate irrespective of who it was, many probably didn't even know the name of their representative. So now Ms Smith is no longer a Labour party member should there not be a by election so labour can replace her with a new one?

If she was to stand as member of another new party it would be interesting, would she take votes away from the fielded labour candidate? i doubt not many. 

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IF people are foolish enough in Stocksbridsge to vote for a party rather than the person then they get what they expect.

 

As one of these MP's said, they have not left their values behind, so they are not changing what they are. So the people of Stocksbridge et al still have their MP and no, of course there shouldnt be a byelection.

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