The Labour Party. All discussion here please

[Arnold_Lane 0]

1 minute ago, banjodeano said:

Ok Tom, i  have answered your question....

please answer mine.....

I'll have one last throw of the dice before i bow out, i think i have made my point...

is making any criticism  of Israel anti semitic, do you think it is?? come on Tom, yes or no?

 

 

No, criticism of Israel is not antisemitic.  But stuff like the below is.  And you still deny the party has a problem with antisemitism.

 

On 11/03/2019 at 11:22, banjodeano said:

The friends of Israel are funding a lot of MP's in the party, money is coming from the likes of Sir David Gerrard who is Jewish, he also financed the breakaway labour MP's, Trevor Chinn is another Jewish Donor funding the likes of Tom Watson...they are doing the best to destroy the party, they are deliberately making it un electable, whether you like the fact or not, Jewish money is trying to stop democracy in the labour party

[melthebell 862]

8 minutes ago, Arnold_Lane said:

No, criticism of Israel is not antisemitic.  But stuff like the below is.  And you still deny the party has a problem with antisemitism.

 

I do think a lot of socialists, communists and indeed anarchists get so stuck on being anti capitalist they do indeed start to throw what for all intents and purposes used to be a right wing / neo nazi conspiracy theory that jews own all the money / banks etc.

[whiteowl 54]

I voted for Louise Haigh (Labour, Heeley, in case you're not in this area) in the last election and I'm also against the Israeli violence and abuse in Gaza and the West Bank.

 

Does that make me an anti-semtite?

 

Bear in mind I'm an  athiest person so I don't care what fictional sky god you believe in, I just care about how you treat your fellow man.

[alchresearch 214]

12 hours ago, banjodeano said:

is making any criticism  of Israel anti semitic, do you think it is?? come on Tom, yes or no?

 

 

This is the problem with some Labour supporters - you have an obsession with Israel and Palestine.  Why?  What's so special that it deserves Labours full attention?

 

Look at the time and energy you've wasted on the last few pages of this forum with it, dragging up things like the RLB matter which is now dead and buried.

 

Replicate that across the country and that time could have been better spent fixing the other problems the party has.

 

When I was a lad, all Labour seemed to be concerned with is how evil the Tories were. 

 

Keep your noses out of foreign affairs and concentrate on the problems THIS country has first.

 

All I want from Labour is how they're going to improve my area locally, and what they would do for the country nationally.

Edited July 24, 2020 by alchresearch

[Vaati 11]

This is the final warning we are going to give about bickering, name calling etc. If a post breaks the forum rules, report it. Any further and accounts will be suspended.

[Tony 10]

14 hours ago, banjodeano said:

Ok Tom, i  have answered your question....

please answer mine.....

I'll have one last throw of the dice before i bow out, i think i have made my point...

is making any criticism  of Israel anti semitic, do you think it is?? come on Tom, yes or no?

 

 

Of course it isn't. What is antisemitic is saying that Jews, for example the Board Of Deputies, exert control and influence for Israel.  Maxine Peake repeated antisemitic tropes and RLB repeated them through her recommendation of Peake's antisemitic screed. Peake has apologised and retracted although I'm not sure if RLB has yet. Jeremy Corbyn has been sustaining RLB's position instead of keeping quiet or doing the right thing by disassociate himself from the antisemitism. 

 

I appreciate that this is full of nuance that might be a bit difficult to comprehend so we can make this simple. This is the accepted IHRA working definition of antisemitism that could help anyone who has antisemitic tendencies. 

 

 

“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”

 

 

And here are some examples of day to day antisemitism at work.

 

 

Contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to:

• Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.
• Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.
• Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.
• Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).
• Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.
• Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.
• Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
• Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
• Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
• Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
• Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by Tony

[banjodeano 31]

A crowdfund to support the legal expense of Corbyn is already reportedly to have passed over £200,000 ....i dont think the BBC have mentioned it though...

 

https://skwawkbox.org/2020/07/24/corbyn-fundraiser-passes-200000-within-48-hours-and-some-of-the-comments-and-donor-names-are-a-must-see/

[convert 10]

1 hour ago, banjodeano said:

A crowdfund to support the legal expense of Corbyn is already reportedly to have passed over £200,000 ....i dont think the BBC have mentioned it though...

 

https://skwawkbox.org/2020/07/24/corbyn-fundraiser-passes-200000-within-48-hours-and-some-of-the-comments-and-donor-names-are-a-must-see/

Maybe not, but the Mail have

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8559153/Jeremy-Corbyn-pressure-return-210-000-Fund-cash-help-fight-legal-battle.html

 

 

[Mister Gee 813]

39 minutes ago, convert said:

Maybe not, but the Mail have

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8559153/Jeremy-Corbyn-pressure-return-210-000-Fund-cash-help-fight-legal-battle.html

 

 

The comments are always a good laugh. 
 

Cyril Knowles, Hartlepool , United Kingdom, 2 days ago

“There is no such thing as Labour anymore, it's right, centre and looney left”.

[banjodeano 31]

7 hours ago, convert said:

Maybe not, but the Mail have

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8559153/Jeremy-Corbyn-pressure-return-210-000-Fund-cash-help-fight-legal-battle.html

 

 

yeah the Daily Fail, the shining beacon of hope and faith................. that once supported fascism...

[Tony 10]

10 hours ago, banjodeano said:

A crowdfund to support the legal expense of Corbyn is already reportedly to have passed over £200,000 ....i dont think the BBC have mentioned it though...

 

https://skwawkbox.org/2020/07/24/corbyn-fundraiser-passes-200000-within-48-hours-and-some-of-the-comments-and-donor-names-are-a-must-see/

Antisemites fundraise for an antisemite would be a strange thing to lead on News At Ten. Perhaps they can give free PR to the KKK and National Front while they are at it - a sort of equal opportunities for bigots. That will tick the diversity boxes I suppose. 

 

It does lead us to question their collective brainpower though because the very last thing that Corbyn will want to do is to defend his antisemitism in a court. He spent years not suing the many people who called him an antisemite and racist but now he's not in charge it's not his decision. This is going to be really interesting when it gets to court. 

 

Usually, bad people can only exist by working in the shadows, sowing doubt among the fearful, the powerless, the vulnerable, so that they can exploit them for support. It's a common path seen time and again throughout history. They hate their ideas being properly scrutinised where they don't have the chance to twist the truth.

 

Years ago we did something similar with the BNP on this very forum. We gave their followers the oxygen to have their say but in a way so that they had to defend it. I happened to be a SF Admin at the time so we were able to take those sort of decisions. They were exposed, humiliated and very soon ceased to exist as a force as they burned out in public. It was a wonderful thing to be a part of - exposing actual racists right here on Sheffield Forum. Have a little search because many of those threads are still open and viewable.

 

I hear that one or two of them turned themselves around after the veil was drawn back. They seized the chance to get the darkness out of their life because this little internet forum shined a bright light on actual bigots and racists. 

 

When's Corbyn in court?

[banjodeano 31]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

Antisemites fundraise for an antisemite would be a strange thing to lead on News At Ten. Perhaps they can give free PR to the KKK and National Front while they are at it - a sort of equal opportunities for bigots. That will tick the diversity boxes I suppose. 

 

It does lead us to question their collective brainpower though because the very last thing that Corbyn will want to do is to defend his antisemitism in a court. He spent years not suing the many people who called him an antisemite and racist but now he's not in charge it's not his decision. This is going to be really interesting when it gets to court. 

 

Usually, bad people can only exist by working in the shadows, sowing doubt among the fearful, the powerless, the vulnerable, so that they can exploit them for support. It's a common path seen time and again throughout history. They hate their ideas being properly scrutinised where they don't have the chance to twist the truth.

 

Years ago we did something similar with the BNP on this very forum. We gave their followers the oxygen to have their say but in a way so that they had to defend it. I happened to be a SF Admin at the time so we were able to take those sort of decisions. They were exposed, humiliated and very soon ceased to exist as a force as they burned out in public. It was a wonderful thing to be a part of - exposing actual racists right here on Sheffield Forum. Have a little search because many of those threads are still open and viewable.

 

I hear that one or two of them turned themselves around after the veil was drawn back. They seized the chance to get the darkness out of their life because this little internet forum shined a bright light on actual bigots and racists. 

 

When's Corbyn in court?

Where is your evidence that Corbyn is antisemitic? The fact that he shared one silly meme or something? and where is your evidence that all the crowd funders are also antisemites? Lots of generalisation there ..