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The Labour Party. All discussion here please

Vaati

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20 minutes ago, sheffbag said:

Nope, they were opinions and polls prior to the election which are based on a sample and prior to any results

 

Facts are items based on the actual election results that are verified and accountable

Fact 1 - Labour needed a minimum of 21000 votes to gain an outright majority

Fact 2 Labour needed over 2000 votes plus the agreement of every other party bar the DUP in order to form a coalition

Fact 3 The Conservative party needed less than 800 votes to gain an outright majority.

 

There's your facts. Based on any way you look at it 800 is less than 2000 and 21000.  Or alternatively Teresa May was very very very close to getting an outright majority

There is of course Fact 4. Labour led by Jeremy Corbyn lost to possibly the weakest PM in living memory in 2015 and then again in 2019.

 

I respect your opinion but if you are trying to base it on facts then you leave yourself open to challenge and the actual results don't support you.

 

I can however ask you which members do you think were undermining JC during the election since you didnt answer that last time

 

I'm not basing it on facts, i never have, how can i base it on facts, it is something that can not be backed up with facts, as i have said many times its my opinion,  but looking at how well labour did compared to how poor they were predicted to do, then if they had the whole party pulling in the same direction then i am confident that Corbyn would now be in number ten, now we can argue that all day wrong, but neither of us can prove that right or wrong

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15 minutes ago, banjodeano said:

I'm not basing it on facts, i never have, how can i base it on facts, it is something that can not be backed up with facts, as i have said many times its my opinion,  but looking at how well labour did compared to how poor they were predicted to do, then if they had the whole party pulling in the same direction then i am confident that Corbyn would now be in number ten, now we can argue that all day wrong, but neither of us can prove that right or wrong

You have based your whole 2500 votes argument on the Independent report that you quoted above on page 850. 

You claim party members where undermining the Labour Party committing potentially criminal acts but wont name any as you quoted on page 850

Its not really an argument is it. you got challenged on an opinion, tried to present it as a fact, got challenged on the fact and now saying that its wasn't a fact.

 

I'll leave it there Banjo. Keep believing that JC would have been PM but the facts dont back you up. 

Edited by sheffbag

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4 minutes ago, West 77 said:

Corbyn is a loser. He lost the 2017 General Election and lost the 2019 General Election. Labour made a big mistake by treating the 2017 General Election as a victory because they didn't lose as badly as most people expected.  Corbyn should have resigned in 2017. 

Corbyn is a loser?

He is far from perfect , and not a natural leader, but is heart is in the right place, and he has done more good and helped more people in his lifetime than you probably  could ever have hoped to achieve, prey tell us what  great achievement  you have done to make the world a better place? 

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4 minutes ago, sheffbag said:

You have based your whole 2500 votes argument on the Independent report that you quoted above on page 850. 

You claim party members where undermining the Labour Party committing potentially criminal acts but wont name any as you quoted on page 850

Its not really an argument is it. you got challenged on an opinion, tried to present it as a fact, got challenged on the fact and now saying that its wasn't a fact.

 

I'll leave it there Banjo. Keep believing that JC would have been PM but the facts dont back you up. 

sorry i didnt realise i was asked that question.....

here, this is just a small cip of the report...

https://www.counterfire.org/articles/analysis/21098-labour-s-explosive-report-shows-how-right-wing-officials-sabotaged-the-party

Abusive language, sexism and paranoia

Many people have reacted to the report by observing that they already knew how vicious and hostile some elements of the party apparatus had been, but it is still shocking to discover exactly what they said among themselves.

There are literally scores of references to ‘Trots’ among the quoted evidence in the report. It is evidently an obsession to the point of paranoia: anyone even slightly to the left of Ed Miliband is characterised this way. At one point there is even the audacious characterisation of ‘most of the PLP’ as ‘Trots’. It is revealing, too, that even such moderate figures as Miliband, Andy Burnham and Sadiq Khan are on the receiving end of derogatory comments, so fanatical is their centrism.

Seumas Milne, director of communications, is referred to as a “nutter” (not the only time that word is used) and a “total mentalist”. Emily Oldknow is among those who mock black MP Dawn Butler for raising the issue of racism in the party.  There is discussion of ‘hanging and burning’ Corbyn, while those MPs who nominated him should be ‘taken out and shot’. And, apparently, ‘death by fire is too kind for LOTO’.

In February 2017 there is an exchange about Diane Abbott, Labour’s best-known black female politician. One claims that Abbott has ‘been found crying in the loos’ and another suggests they tip off Michael Crick, the Channel 4 journalist, about Abbott’s whereabouts. On another occasion Abbott is described as ‘a very angry woman’ with another official adding that she is ‘truly repulsive’.

Left-wing women are particularly likely to have deeply unpleasant language used about them. A discussion about Katy Clark, Corbyn’s political secretary, includes Oldknow writing ‘**** off pube head’. On another occasion, Oldknow calls Clark a ‘smelly cow’ and seems aggrieved that she had ‘the exact same clothes on yesterday’.

Oldknow’s preoccupation with judging women negatively on their appearance is a recurring theme. Of Laura Murray, a young party worker, she wrote: ‘You’d think with all that money she could afford to buy a jacket and a bra’. She also castigates Karie Murphy from LOTO as ‘fat’. Murphy is the subject of another exchange, involving several people, during which she is referred to as ‘a ****wit’, ‘Crazy woman’, ‘crazy snake head lady’, ‘Bitch face cow’, ‘a good dartboard’ and ‘Medusa Monster’.

 

I have the full report and i am working my way through it...

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Banjo and anna - quick question. Now your beloved Jc has been replaced by Starmer, will you still be voting Labour in any election you are allowed to vote in?

 

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Just now, sheffbag said:

Banjo and anna - quick question. Now your beloved Jc has been replaced by Starmer, will you still be voting Labour in any election you are allowed to vote in?

 

Probably yes... what genuine alternative is there for some kind of change? Not that I honestly believe starmer will offer that.

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How long till Keir Starmer and his merry band start campaigning  for a 'people's vote' , or 'extending the transition' - doubt Labour will fare any better now.

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5 hours ago, sheffbag said:

Banjo and anna - quick question. Now your beloved Jc has been replaced by Starmer, will you still be voting Labour in any election you are allowed to vote in?

 

That depends on how he shapes up.

At the moment, I'm not inclined to vote for him.

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Firstly, shame on those at the top for attempting to use someone's illness for political point scoring. 

 

Secondly, shame on the the Chair of Labour's NEC, Andi Fox for re-tweeting the claim, when she should have been clamping down on such false claims. 

 

Thirdly.  It's clear that Starmer has a big job in front of him? 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-boris-johnson-andi-fox-labour-nec-hospital-doctors-twitter-a9464246.html

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