The Labour Party. All discussion here please

[Longcol 596]

7 minutes ago, banjodeano said:

yes, that would be why they are called the government, and the opposition opposes....thats cleared that up then, anything else to add?

Yes - what on earth does "a socialist government is a credible opposition" mean?

 

[Pettytom 1]

12 minutes ago, banjodeano said:

yes, that would be why they are called the government, and the opposition opposes....thats cleared that up then, anything else to add?

Which one of those two roles have labour filled for the last four parliaments?

[banjodeano 31]

1 minute ago, Longcol said:

Yes - what on earth does "a socialist government is a credible opposition" mean?

 

yeah yeah yeah....you knew what i meant,  anything else to offer??

[Longcol 596]

Just now, banjodeano said:

yeah yeah yeah....you knew what i meant,  anything else to offer??

That the opposition presented by Corbyn was ineffective and wasn't a credible alternative government to anything like a  majority of the electorate - and a continuity leader will condemn us to Tory government to 2029 at least.

[banjodeano 31]

Just now, Longcol said:

That the opposition presented by Corbyn was ineffective and wasn't a credible alternative government to anything like a  majority of the electorate - and a continuity leader will condemn us to Tory government to 2029 at least.

and that is where we differ Longcol, as i have said before,  i believe the policies on offer by Corbyn was popular to a lot of people, (take away the free internet nonsense), but the election became all about brexit, if the election had been fought solely on policies then i would agree with you entirely,  then the policies were put forward and not liked by the electorate, but the election wasnt a policy election

[hobinfoot 25]

1 hour ago, banjodeano said:

perhaps you may be right, but my heart tells me i should vote for someone with socialist principles,  i am not going to change what i believe in just so i can back a winner, if that was the case then the labour party should just adopt Tory principles and get elected at any price, not for me thanks

I admire your belief in socialism and how you are prepared to defend those beliefs. But to get a left leaning government sometimes you may have to bite your lip and back someone who will get you somewhere nearer to the socialist party/government you want. I’ve stated and believe on many occasions the average voter in the UK habits the centre ground of politics.

[Longcol 596]

9 minutes ago, banjodeano said:

and that is where we differ Longcol, as i have said before,  i believe the policies on offer by Corbyn was popular to a lot of people, (take away the free internet nonsense), but the election became all about brexit, if the election had been fought solely on policies then i would agree with you entirely,  then the policies were put forward and not liked by the electorate, but the election wasnt a policy election

Sufficient to have given Labour a majority if it wasn't for Brexit?

 

What is your reference group for "a lot of people"? All reports I read from a cross section of the press (and mainly the Grauniad and Independent) said the manifesto went down like a rat sandwich on the doorstep.

[banjodeano 31]

6 minutes ago, hobinfoot said:

I admire your belief in socialism and how you are prepared to defend those beliefs. But to get a left leaning government sometimes you may have to bite your lip and back someone who will get you somewhere nearer to the socialist party/government you want. I’ve stated and believe on many occasions the average voter in the UK habits the centre ground of politics.

i fully understand where you are coming from, and i agree with your point to some degree, 

[Pettytom 1]

7 minutes ago, hobinfoot said:

I admire your belief in socialism and how you are prepared to defend those beliefs. But to get a left leaning government sometimes you may have to bite your lip and back someone who will get you somewhere nearer to the socialist party/government you want. I’ve stated and believe on many occasions the average voter in the UK habits the centre ground of politics.

Indeed.

 

I’ve never understood why the hard left prefer Tory government  to centre left government . That’s the reality of the effect of the momentum project ( and Millitant, before them).

[Fudbeer 12]

4 hours ago, alchresearch said:

New Tory voters think Labour left them, not the other way around

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/new-tory-voters-think-labour-left-them-not-the-other-way-around-f0j5r7w6p

 

Wow that 74% poll sums up the situation perfectly.They really need to take note (but it looks like they are not)

[banjodeano 31]

3 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Sufficient to have given Labour a majority if it wasn't for Brexit?

 

What is your reference group for "a lot of people"? All reports I read from a cross section of the press (and mainly the Grauniad and Independent) said the manifesto went down like a rat sandwich on the doorstep.

who knows, i think he may have shocked a lot of people, got a majority? i would like to think so, as i have said before, Corbyn did quite well in the 2017 election, okay he lost, but he increased labours share of the vote when he was forecast to get a good thrashing from May, he had the same policies then, everyone knew he was a socialist, why didnt he get annihilated in 2017??

I completely disagree that his manifesto went down like a lead balloon, a lot of his policies were popular with the electorate, i came across a study that was done and people were polled on his policies, obviously they were not told that they were Corbyn's policies, but just random questions that would you like to see the railways privatised etc, and the policies had a very good response, but for the life of me i cant find the survey that i thought i had bookmarked

[banjodeano 31]

10 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

Indeed.

 

I’ve never understood why the hard left prefer Tory government  to centre left government . That’s the reality of the effect of the momentum project ( and Millitant, before them).

oh Tom, please give it a rest with the momentum nonsense, its not about momentum, dont keep getting sidelined by the labels, its about a certain group of the working class people who see a better and fairer future for everyone, what is the momentum membership number? 40.000??  the labour party membership has increased to 500,000 due to Corbyn, momentum really are irrelevant,