The Labour Party. All discussion here please

[banjodeano 31]

32 minutes ago, BoroB said:

Don't take my word that people felt abandoned by Labour, watch the ex Don Valley Labour  MP Caroline Flints interview, sorry media manipulation broadcast, on Sky this morning.

 

She said the writing was on the wall when her majority fell in 2017 despite her actual vote numbers going up. 

 

Perhaps you could share the proof of your claim of 120,000 direct deaths due to austerity?

 

The following is a good article on austerity and how Labour would have had to make severe cuts if they had won the 2010 election.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/mar/25/alistair-darling-cut-deeper-margaret-thatcher

So let me throw it back at ya, do you think the labour policies were nearly all designed to help the working class? and if not who were the policies aimed at?

if the working class felt alienated by labour, i think it happened well before Corbyn came to power

 

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/headlines/2019/sep/austerity-linked-120000-extra-deaths-england

and

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/01/perfect-storm-austerity-behind-130000-deaths-uk-ippr-report

1 minute ago, lottiecass said:

Of course his policies were well discussed,banjo  but he chose to take the wrong decision on Brexit when the majority of his voters were pro Brexit. This election was a substitute Brexit referendum and the result shows it.

no they were not, how many times did you see headlines about anti semitism and how many headlines about policies? they must have had a difference of at least 10 to 1

[lottiecass 17]

2 minutes ago, banjodeano said:

So let me throw it back at ya, do you think the labour policies were nearly all designed to help the working class? and if not who were the policies aimed at?

if the working class felt alienated by labour, i think it happened well before Corbyn came to power

 

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/headlines/2019/sep/austerity-linked-120000-extra-deaths-england

and

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/01/perfect-storm-austerity-behind-130000-deaths-uk-ippr-report

no they were not, how many times did you see headlines about anti semitism and how many headlines about policies? they must have had a difference of at least 10 to 1

Your bias is showing again banjo, do you watch tv much ? 

[apelike 10]

45 minutes ago, banjodeano said:

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/headlines/2019/sep/austerity-linked-120000-extra-deaths-england

But... from the same link:

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-did-austerity-kill-120000-people

 

45 minutes ago, banjodeano said:

and

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/01/perfect-storm-austerity-behind-130000-deaths-uk-ippr-report

Again about the above one:

 

https://fullfact.org/health/130000-preventable-deaths-austerity/

 

 

 

 

[BoroB 10]

1 hour ago, banjodeano said:

So let me throw it back at ya, do you think the labour policies were nearly all designed to help the working class? and if not who were the policies aimed at?

if the working class felt alienated by labour, i think it happened well before Corbyn came to power

 

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/headlines/2019/sep/austerity-linked-120000-extra-deaths-england

and

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/01/perfect-storm-austerity-behind-130000-deaths-uk-ippr-report

no they were not, how many times did you see headlines about anti semitism and how many headlines about policies? they must have had a difference of at least 10 to 1

I must have missed proud  working class areas such as Durham, Blyth, Bolsover, Don Valley, Stoke, Sedgefield etc returning Tory MP's before.

 

But again, don't take my word for it, have a read of todays Guardian to see what the Sedgefield electorate think of Labour and Corbyn.

 

To answer your question re labour policies, I think they were designed to bankrupt the country and helped to contribute to Corbyn's defeat on Thursday.

 

If the intention was to help the working class that worked out well at the polls, didn't it?

[Anna B 1,401]

5 hours ago, Fudbeer said:

Yes some good points there for me  Brexit policy  was a big mistake I read from their own website what their policy was and I did not believe it was a clear or a fair having remain as an option again all but negates the result of the first referendum whatever spin they put on it.Its also clear Corbyn never really connected with his core working class voters.A fatal mistake.

How could he, when the papers did nothing but slag him off and lie about him and his policies? People couldn't all go and see him for themselves at one of his rallies, and probably aren't exactly Guardian readers. No, Corbyn was well and truly villified by the elitist run media. They decided this election years ago when Corbyn became leader.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Anna B

[Baron99 778]

2 hours ago, banjodeano said:

Certainly not, all the policies that were in the Labour manifesto were designed to help those people that you mention, what exactly have the Tories who have been in power for nine years actually done to help them?

I think the big issue is that the media demonised Corbyn from the start, he was never given a fair chance, all that rubbish about not singing the national anthem, not dressing smart, or being a traitor, it got into peoples minds and poisoned them from the start, you have to ask yourself if we in fact have a democracy.

But the main point he lost was over brexit, he should have gone along with the vote, if he did that then he would probably be in power.

One thing that strikes me at the moment are that the media are saying this proves that the left leaning policies are a failure, and that nobody wants them,  whereas on the run up to the election they barely mentioned Corbyns policies, all they wanted to talk about was brexit and how unsuitable Corbyn was to be pm, i think the socialist policies are more than relevant, you have to question yourself  if you are happy that under austerity 120,000 have died due to the deliberate implementation of austerity by the Tories? 

You have to be very careful making assumptions & quoting certain statistics to prove a point, when the statistical data may in itself be flawed or produced by a body that had a certain political agenda?

 

For instance, the 120,000 deaths attributed to UK austerity between 2010 to 2017 is based on data only taken from between 2012 to 2014 & then extrapolated backwards & forwards to cover the full 7 year period. 

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-did-austerity-kill-120000-people

 

Has any doctor actually signed a death certificate & put 'austerity' as the reason for death? 

Edited December 15, 2019 by Baron99

[lottiecass 17]

20 minutes ago, Anna B said:

How could he, when the papers did nothing but slag him off and lie about him and his policies? People couldn't all go and see him for themselves at one of his rallies, and probably aren't exactly Guardian readers. No, Corbyn was well and truly villified by the elitist run media. They decided this election years ago when Corbyn became leader.

What particular lies do you mean ? it's not as though the media hadn't plenty of ammo without having to lie.

[ANGELFIRE1 10]

Banjodeano,  a honest question starting from scratch so to speak. In light of the result for Labour,  in light of the number of honest Labour MP's who have now come out against Corbyn.  Was this man, Corbyn, Prime Minister material in you opinion.

 

I also realise that the Labour Party have a monster problem looming on the horizon, who to elect as next leader, a Corbyn clone like,  Long Bailey, Abbott,  Thornberry, Rayner or Starmer  or a moderate sensible candidate like,  Ashworth and - 

 

Angel1.

Edited December 15, 2019 by ANGELFIRE1

[FinBak 12]

3 minutes ago, ANGELFIRE1 said:

Banjodeano,  a honest question starting from scratch so to speak. In light of the result for Labour,  in light of the number of honest Labour MP's who have now come out against Corbyn.  Was this man, Corbyn, Prime Minister material in you opinion.

 

I also realise that the Labour Party have a monster problem looming on the horizon, who to elect as next leader, a Corbyn clone like,  Long Bailey, Abbott,  Thornberry, Rayner or Starmer  or a moderate sensible candidate like,  Ashworth and - 

 

Angel1.

Corbyn wasn't material...Per-se.

 

Corbyn 20 Years ago (TODAY) would have swung it.

 

 

 

 

[ECCOnoob 1,020]

1 hour ago, Anna B said:

How could he, when the papers did nothing but slag him off and lie about him and his policies? People couldn't all go and see him for themselves at one of his rallies, and probably aren't exactly Guardian readers. No, Corbyn was well and truly villified by the elitist run media. They decided this election years ago when Corbyn became leader.

Still banging that media bias drum I see.

 

He was a failure and the media reflected that. 

 

You are probably right the election was decided years ago. It was decided the moment the momentum morons put up a completely unelectable, toxic, weak and incompetent leader into intense world of the the top job with the inevitable heavy-handed public scrutiny.

 

I would like to say that they will learn from their mistakes but I am not so sure.

[banjodeano 31]

2 hours ago, lottiecass said:

Your bias is showing again banjo, do you watch tv much ? 

i very seldom watch tv, in fact i go out of my way to avoid it

[carosio 186]

2 hours ago, banjodeano said:

 

no they were not, how many times did you see headlines about anti semitism and how many headlines about policies? they must have had a difference of at least 10 to 1

The anti-semitism critics were mainly from his own party.