The Labour Party. All discussion here please

[melthebell 863]

15 minutes ago, BoroB said:

Its good to know that you can see and hear things, interpret that how you want and apparently make an informed rational decision whereas other people who see and hear the same  things as you but make different decisions to yours are insulted and are talking bobbar.

 

That sums up the Labour party as it is now, if they don't agree with Labour, ignore them, insult them, patronise them, and moan, moan, moan.

i dont agree with labour, i voted labour, tactically, but i dont go for a party as a whole

[jaffa1 10]

2 hours ago, melthebell said:

thats not what happened though, a mixture of brexit and media manipulation, i doubt anybody barely even looked at wha they were offering

So what are you saying then? that Labour voters are gullible  and easily brain washed?

[Longcol 600]

4 hours ago, BoroB said:

It's time for Labour to stop blaming others and take a long hard look at itself as to why voters in its heartlands are abandoning it.

 

It wasn't the media that opened the borders without any considerations or planning, flooding working class areas with people putting pressure on school places, doctors surgeries,  housing, hospital places, council services etc.

 

Labour acted, people reacted by giving their votes to other parties.

 

When people raise concerns Labour grandees brand them as bigoted.

 

Labour working class areas vote to leave the EU and Labour dismiss their concerns yet again, putting Parliament into the paralysis that led to Thursday's election.

 

Jeremy Corbyn then chose to address the Brexit issue by ignoring it, burying his head in the sand by offering no clear policy.

 

It's an insult to the working class to blame 'media manipulation' for these areas who have been ignored, patronised and abandoned by Labour choosing to vote elsewhere.

How has Durham - where the Tories won seats from Labour been "flooded"? About 98% of the population are white.

Bolsover? Don Valley? Workington?

 

Some of the whitest areas in the country.

 

 

[Mister Gee 822]

1 minute ago, Longcol said:

How has Durham - where the Tories won seats from Labour been "flooded"? About 98% of the population are white.

Bolsover? Don Valley? Workington?

 

Some of the whitest areas in the country.

 

 

Good call Longcol.

[Longcol 600]

5 hours ago, BoroB said:

'Blind Obsession'  for Labour not giving a monkeys for them and taking their vote for granted?

 

What is for all to see is that places who have never voted Tory in generations took a look at what Labour were offering and said no thank you.

How many Labour Prime Ministers have been elected in your lifetime?

[Car Boot 10]

An excellent article on the Labour party result has been written by Brendan Chilton, a Labour Councillor from Kent and a former Parliamentary Candidate. He was head of the Labour Leave campaign during the EU Referendum and remains its General Secretary, working closely with the Labour donor John Mills.

  

"In 2016, Labour Brexit policy respected the outcome of the referendum. Indeed, Jeremy Corbyn was the first major UK political party leader to call for Article 50 to be invoked. We were very clear that we would be leaving the European Union. It was on that basis that we went to the electorate in 2017 and we were able to deprive the Conservatives of a majority. We were able to do this precisely because we held on to our vital Labour Leave vote.

 

Since then, a core within the Parliamentary Labour Party, supported by external forces in the now defunct and defeated People’s Vote campaign, undermined the policy of the party and applied enormous pressure to change its direction. They succeeded and earlier this year Labour endorsed the holding of a second referendum with the option to Remain. It is almost certain that if that referendum had taken place, a very significant proportion of Labour MPs would have campaigned against Labour’s own Brexit deal in favour of Remain.

 

The Brexit policy of the Labour Party at this general election was largely responsible for the disaster that unfolded. A North London Remain clique had placed their own fanatical commitment to the EU above the electoral prospects of the Labour Party. The Labour Party was sacrificed on their altar to Brussels and now dozens of Labour seats have fallen to the Conservatives. Labour is now slain, struck down in the very communities in which it was founded over 100 years ago.

 

Seventy percent of Labour’s constituencies voted to leave the European Union at the 2016 referendum. A majority of our most marginal seats voted Leave, and a majority of the seats we needed to win voted Leave. Between four and five million Labour voters supported Leave. At the 2019 European Parliament elections, the strongest levels of support for the Brexit Party were in the strongest Labour Leave areas, but the party hierarchy took no notice."

 

https://brexitcentral.com/if-the-labour-is-to-recover-from-this-defeat-it-must-work-with-the-government-to-get-brexit-done/

 

A second referendum (with an option to Remain) destroyed Labour in its heartlands. A Remain elite, not just in Labour but in all of the big three parties, needs to understand that they must accept democratic results they don't like.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Car Boot

[Fudbeer 12]

1 hour ago, Car Boot said:

An excellent article on the Labour party result has been written by Brendan Chilton, a Labour Councillor from Kent and a former Parliamentary Candidate. He was head of the Labour Leave campaign during the EU Referendum and remains its General Secretary, working closely with the Labour donor John Mills.

  

"In 2016, Labour Brexit policy respected the outcome of the referendum. Indeed, Jeremy Corbyn was the first major UK political party leader to call for Article 50 to be invoked. We were very clear that we would be leaving the European Union. It was on that basis that we went to the electorate in 2017 and we were able to deprive the Conservatives of a majority. We were able to do this precisely because we held on to our vital Labour Leave vote.

 

Since then, a core within the Parliamentary Labour Party, supported by external forces in the now defunct and defeated People’s Vote campaign, undermined the policy of the party and applied enormous pressure to change its direction. They succeeded and earlier this year Labour endorsed the holding of a second referendum with the option to Remain. It is almost certain that if that referendum had taken place, a very significant proportion of Labour MPs would have campaigned against Labour’s own Brexit deal in favour of Remain.

 

The Brexit policy of the Labour Party at this general election was largely responsible for the disaster that unfolded. A North London Remain clique had placed their own fanatical commitment to the EU above the electoral prospects of the Labour Party. The Labour Party was sacrificed on their altar to Brussels and now dozens of Labour seats have fallen to the Conservatives. Labour is now slain, struck down in the very communities in which it was founded over 100 years ago.

 

Seventy percent of Labour’s constituencies voted to leave the European Union at the 2016 referendum. A majority of our most marginal seats voted Leave, and a majority of the seats we needed to win voted Leave. Between four and five million Labour voters supported Leave. At the 2019 European Parliament elections, the strongest levels of support for the Brexit Party were in the strongest Labour Leave areas, but the party hierarchy took no notice."

 

https://brexitcentral.com/if-the-labour-is-to-recover-from-this-defeat-it-must-work-with-the-government-to-get-brexit-done/

 

A second referendum (with an option to Remain) destroyed Labour in its heartlands. A Remain elite, not just in Labour but in all of the big three parties, needs to understand that they must accept democratic results they don't like.

Yes some good points there for me  Brexit policy  was a big mistake I read from their own website what their policy was and I did not believe it was a clear or a fair having remain as an option again all but negates the result of the first referendum whatever spin they put on it.Its also clear Corbyn never really connected with his core working class voters.A fatal mistake.

[BoroB 10]

12 hours ago, Longcol said:

How has Durham - where the Tories won seats from Labour been "flooded"? About 98% of the population are white.

Bolsover? Don Valley? Workington?

 

Some of the whitest areas in the country.

 

 

Probably thought they'd be next under Labours 'great deal of movement policy' .

 

Do you disagree that that its working class areas that have suffered most under the open borders policy, implemented by Labour   with little planning as to what effect this would have? Look at Peterborough and Boston.

 

Or in Sheffield Page Hall, Fir Vale, Pitsmoor, Darnall, Tinsley? Much more affected than Dore and Totley

 

Do you disagree that Thursday's result indicates that the working class, whether on immigration or for other reasons, feel abandoned by Labour?

 

10 hours ago, Longcol said:

How many Labour Prime Ministers have been elected in your lifetime?

Wilson and Callaghan when I was a kid, Blair who I voted for three times, Brown unelected.

 

In the rest of my lifetime, probably no more until they address why their heartlands have deserted them. 

Edited December 15, 2019 by BoroB

[nikki-red 308]

Personal comments have been removed. If you cant be civil and post like adults then please dont post at all.

Youve had more than enough warnings.

[banjodeano 31]

1 hour ago, BoroB said:

Probably thought they'd be next under Labours 'great deal of movement policy' .

 

Do you disagree that that its working class areas that have suffered most under the open borders policy, implemented by Labour   with little planning as to what effect this would have? Look at Peterborough and Boston.

 

Or in Sheffield Page Hall, Fir Vale, Pitsmoor, Darnall, Tinsley? Much more affected than Dore and Totley

 

Do you disagree that Thursday's result indicates that the working class, whether on immigration or for other reasons, feel abandoned by Labour?

 

Wilson and Callaghan when I was a kid, Blair who I voted for three times, Brown unelected.

 

In the rest of my lifetime, probably no more until they address why their heartlands have deserted them. 

Certainly not, all the policies that were in the Labour manifesto were designed to help those people that you mention, what exactly have the Tories who have been in power for nine years actually done to help them?

I think the big issue is that the media demonised Corbyn from the start, he was never given a fair chance, all that rubbish about not singing the national anthem, not dressing smart, or being a traitor, it got into peoples minds and poisoned them from the start, you have to ask yourself if we in fact have a democracy.

But the main point he lost was over brexit, he should have gone along with the vote, if he did that then he would probably be in power.

One thing that strikes me at the moment are that the media are saying this proves that the left leaning policies are a failure, and that nobody wants them,  whereas on the run up to the election they barely mentioned Corbyns policies, all they wanted to talk about was brexit and how unsuitable Corbyn was to be pm, i think the socialist policies are more than relevant, you have to question yourself  if you are happy that under austerity 120,000 have died due to the deliberate implementation of austerity by the Tories? 

[BoroB 10]

6 minutes ago, banjodeano said:

Certainly not, all the policies that were in the Labour manifesto were designed to help those people that you mention, what exactly have the Tories who have been in power for nine years actually done to help them?

I think the big issue is that the media demonised Corbyn from the start, he was never given a fair chance, all that rubbish about not singing the national anthem, not dressing smart, or being a traitor, it got into peoples minds and poisoned them from the start, you have to ask yourself if we in fact have a democracy.

But the main point he lost was over brexit, he should have gone along with the vote, if he did that then he would probably be in power.

One thing that strikes me at the moment are that the media are saying this proves that the left leaning policies are a failure, and that nobody wants them,  whereas on the run up to the election they barely mentioned Corbyns policies, all they wanted to talk about was brexit and how unsuitable Corbyn was to be pm, i think the socialist policies are more than relevant, you have to question yourself  if you are happy that under austerity 120,000 have died due to the deliberate implementation of austerity by the Tories? 

Don't take my word that people felt abandoned by Labour, watch the ex Don Valley Labour  MP Caroline Flints interview, sorry media manipulation broadcast, on Sky this morning.

 

She said the writing was on the wall when her majority fell in 2017 despite her actual vote numbers going up. 

 

Perhaps you could share the proof of your claim of 120,000 direct deaths due to austerity?

 

The following is a good article on austerity and how Labour would have had to make severe cuts if they had won the 2010 election.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/mar/25/alistair-darling-cut-deeper-margaret-thatcher

[lottiecass 17]

49 minutes ago, banjodeano said:

Certainly not, all the policies that were in the Labour manifesto were designed to help those people that you mention, what exactly have the Tories who have been in power for nine years actually done to help them?

I think the big issue is that the media demonised Corbyn from the start, he was never given a fair chance, all that rubbish about not singing the national anthem, not dressing smart, or being a traitor, it got into peoples minds and poisoned them from the start, you have to ask yourself if we in fact have a democracy.

But the main point he lost was over brexit, he should have gone along with the vote, if he did that then he would probably be in power.

One thing that strikes me at the moment are that the media are saying this proves that the left leaning policies are a failure, and that nobody wants them,  whereas on the run up to the election they barely mentioned Corbyns policies, all they wanted to talk about was brexit and how unsuitable Corbyn was to be pm, i think the socialist policies are more than relevant, you have to question yourself  if you are happy that under austerity 120,000 have died due to the deliberate implementation of austerity by the Tories? 

Of course his policies were well discussed,banjo  but he chose to take the wrong decision on Brexit when the majority of his voters were pro Brexit. This election was a substitute Brexit referendum and the result shows it.