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The Labour Party. All discussion here please

Vaati

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15 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Certainly can't see a majority in favour of another referendum.

That’s the big problem.

 

There is clearly a parliamentary majority to oppose no deal. Unfortunately, they are hopelessly split about what to do next.

 

Some want a GE.  Some want an in/ out referendum. Some want a no deal/ May’s deal referendum. Meanwhile, Corbyn just wants to be PM for a week.

 

The smart money has to be on a cosmetic tweak to the backstop and the May deal going through.

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13 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Certainly can't see a majority in favour of another referendum.

There is and never has been  any need for a second referendum.

 

This is how it is most likely to play out.

 

1. Vote of no confidence.

 

2. General Election.

 

3. Labour stands on a remain platform.

 

so either

 

a) The Conservatives/Farage win and we all go to hell in a handcart or

 

b) Labour wins or forms a government with Lib Dems/SNP/Greens whatever.

 

The election of a Remain government or Remain coalition means that Article 50 can be revoked without the need for a second referendum.

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10 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

There is and never has been  any need for a second referendum.

 

This is how it is most likely to play out.

 

1. Vote of no confidence.

 

2. General Election.

 

3. Labour stands on a remain platform.

 

so either

 

a) The Conservatives/Farage win and we all go to hell in a handcart or

 

b) Labour wins or forms a government with Lib Dems/SNP/Greens whatever.

 

The election of a Remain government or Remain coalition means that Article 50 can be revoked without the need for a second referendum.

If there is another GE;

 

It would have to be held PDQ - and likely article 50 would have to be "extended" to beyond 31 October.

No guarantee Labour will stand on a remain platform. Corbyn will try to fudge something.

 

Even in the case of a "remain" government I would think that they will feel obliged to hold a second referendum

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12 minutes ago, Longcol said:

No guarantee Labour will stand on a remain platform. Corbyn will try to fudge something.

 

 

Even in the case of a "remain" government I would think that they will feel obliged to hold a second referendum

In September, Labour needs to vote at conference to become a wholeheartedly Remain party.

 

If Corbyn equivocates in any way, then Labour needs to get rid of him and get rid of him quickly. In fact the only way I can see Labour winning an electoral majority is without Corbyn, as the next election will be purely about Brexit and Corbyn has absolutely no credibility as a Remain leader.

 

If a Remain party wins a general election there is really no need to hold a second referendum. Let’s not forget that there has never been a majority in the UK to leave the EU, so a Remain government’s first job would be to pass a bill in Parliament to revoke Article 50 and rejoin the real world.

 

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4 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

In September, Labour needs to vote at conference to become a wholeheartedly Remain party.

 

If Corbyn equivocates in any way, then Labour needs to get rid of him and get rid of him quickly. In fact the only way I can see Labour winning an electoral majority is without Corbyn, as the next election will be purely about Brexit and Corbyn has absolutely no credibility as a Remain leader.

 

If a Remain party wins a general election there is really no need to hold a second referendum. Let’s not forget that there has never been a majority in the UK to leave the EU, so a Remain government’s first job would be to pass a bill in Parliament to revoke Article 50 and rejoin the real world.

 

Although by that logic, there was never a majority in the UK to join the EU (or EC as it was then) in the first place. 

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14 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

In September, Labour needs to vote at conference to become a wholeheartedly Remain party.

 

If Corbyn equivocates in any way, then Labour needs to get rid of him and get rid of him quickly. In fact the only way I can see Labour winning an electoral majority is without Corbyn, as the next election will be purely about Brexit and Corbyn has absolutely no credibility as a Remain leader.

 

If a Remain party wins a general election there is really no need to hold a second referendum. Let’s not forget that there has never been a majority in the UK to leave the EU, so a Remain government’s first job would be to pass a bill in Parliament to revoke Article 50 and rejoin the real world.

 

There are far too many "ifs" for your statement "no deal or remain" to be the only outcomes.

 

And as I've said I'm pretty sure any remain party  coalition winnning a GE will feel obliged (rightly IMHO) to hold another rederendum - I can't see them winning a GE without that promise.

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44 minutes ago, Longcol said:

And as I've said I'm pretty sure any remain party  coalition winnning a GE will feel obliged (rightly IMHO) to hold another rederendum - I can't see them winning a GE without that promise.

If a Remain party or coalition wins a General Election, what on earth is the point of holding another referendum?

 

That makes no sense whatsoever.

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9 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

If a Remain party or coalition wins a General Election, what on earth is the point of holding another referendum?

 

That makes no sense whatsoever.

You don't know why they voted for a remain party, they could've for all sorts of reasons, unless you added an option on the slip but them it would also be a referendum

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2 minutes ago, melthebell said:

You don't know why they voted for a remain party, they could've for all sorts of reasons, unless you added an option on the slip but them it would also be a referendum

What is the #1 political issue facing the nation at the moment?

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2 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

What is the #1 political issue facing the nation at the moment?

But it's still guesswork in guessing why people voted for a 'remain'party, not all might've due to Brexit, a referendum is the only way to gauge it correctly

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5 minutes ago, melthebell said:

But it's still guesswork in guessing why people voted for a 'remain'party, not all might've due to Brexit, 

If a political party stands on a manifesto pledge to revoke article 50, then if elected all they need to do is to revoke Article 50. Are you suggesting that every policy matter in a party’s manifesto is then retested in a referendum after the party wins an election? That’s not how our political system works.

 

Every single credible poll since 2016 has shown a clear majority in favour of remaining in the EU, the biggest and most comprehensive of those showing 55-56% in favour of remaining.

 

Why on earth waste more time on money on an exercise to find out what we already know? 😵

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12 minutes ago, melthebell said:

But it's still guesswork in guessing why people voted for a 'remain'party, not all might've due to Brexit, a referendum is the only way to gauge it correctly

Agree.

 

An outright commitment to remain could be a big vote loser whereas a commitment to  suspend article 50  pending outcome of a second referendum would appear far more attractive and inclusive.

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