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The Labour Party. All discussion here please

Vaati

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18 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Tell you what, of my nearly 6000 posts, quote me just one which shows me as a Corbyn fanatic and I shall donate not £100, not £250, not £500 but £1000 to Sheffield Children’s Hospital!

 

Now instead of ignoring this post and hoping that it goes away, either post the evidence or admit that you are posting rubbish. I shall keep reminding you.

 

Your move! 😉

Any one of fair mind and not a Labourite Corbyn lover like yourself know you are a St Jeremy fanatic.  It stands out like a pimple on a backside.

 

Angel1.

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2 hours ago, alchresearch said:

Corbyn at the last Labour conference:

 

And today:

 

BBC Panorama refuses Labour's demands to remove anti-Semitism show from iPlayer

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/bbc-panorama-refuses-labours-demands-18244603

 

Christ alive.  It's almost as if they want this sorry saga to continue forever.  Are they so politically inept as to think demanding the BBC removes it is a good stand to take?

 

 

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56 minutes ago, ANGELFIRE1 said:

Any one of fair mind and not a Labourite Corbyn lover like yourself know you are a St Jeremy fanatic.  It stands out like a pimple on a backside.

So you are not going to take me up on my offer then?

 

Think of the poor children! 🙄

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3 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

So you are not going to take me up on my offer then?

 

Think of the poor children! 🙄

He'll throw money at you TC if you can get £450,000 from Arron Banks.

 

https://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/topic/467696-the-brexit-party-thread-all-brexit-party-discussion-here-please/page/31/?tab=comments#comment-8247965

 

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Putting the AS debate to bed for a while, my major criticism of Labour is their persistent framing of issues in terms of class struggle and historic battles.   When i see Corbyn and his allies tweeting like crazy from the Durham Miners Gala event, it reinforces my suspicion that the man and his cabal are firmly rooted in the 1970s an 1980s and simply can't move beyond it.  I dont know why?  Maybe it's when they felt most relevant.

 

Durham Miners Gala event?  I mean, why?  JUST WHY?  There haven't been miners and mines in Durham for three decades?  Why not organise a Norfolk Cottonweavers event, or a Birmingham Coopers, Cordwainers and Candlemakers Gala?  It's just as relevant.

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51 minutes ago, bendix said:

Putting the AS debate to bed for a while, my major criticism of Labour is their persistent framing of issues in terms of class struggle and historic battles.  

If Labour didn’t see things in terms of class struggle, what would it make any different from the Lib Dems or even the Conservative Party?

 

And historic battles, particularly victories are very important particularly now at a time when the working class is at a low. The right has always claimed that nothing will ever change. The abolition of slavery, women’s suffrage, trade union rights, abolition of the death penalty, equal opportunities, and a minimum wage were all portrayed as nothing more than pipe dreams that were unachievable. 

 

Celebrating these victories serve as a reminder that things can change if we stand in solidarity with other workers. I was never a big fan of Tony Benn but one thing he was always very good at was opposing ‘miserablism’ on the left and looking at the strengths and positives in life.

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1 hour ago, Top Cats Hat said:

If Labour didn’t see things in terms of class struggle, what would it make any different from the Lib Dems or even the Conservative Party?

The problem affects Labour more because it shows up hypocrisy. 

 

Labour councillor who attacked ‘privatised education’ sends child to £40,000-a-year school

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1152798/labour-party-news-education-nick-childs-brighton-and-hove-council-daughter-roedean

 

Chakrabarti and Abbot have done the same.

 

Same with their constant attacks on Zero Hours Contracts when they use them.

 

If Labour want to champion the class struggle, then they need to be in it with the rest.  IIRC Shaun Woodwood moved from a big mansion to a terraced house in St Helens when he defected to Labour:
 

From mansion to terrace for Tory defector

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1309804/From-mansion-to-terrace-for-Tory-defector.html

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6 minutes ago, alchresearch said:

The problem affects Labour more because it shows up hypocrisy. 

That doesnt mean that Labour policy is wrong, it means that certain individuals in the Labour Party are wrong.

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3 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

If Labour didn’t see things in terms of class struggle, what would it make any different from the Lib Dems or even the Conservative Party?

 

And historic battles, particularly victories are very important particularly now at a time when the working class is at a low. The right has always claimed that nothing will ever change. The abolition of slavery, women’s suffrage, trade union rights, abolition of the death penalty, equal opportunities, and a minimum wage* were all portrayed as nothing more than pipe dreams that were unachievable. 

 

Celebrating these victories serve as a reminder that things can change if we stand in solidarity with other workers. I was never a big fan of Tony Benn but one thing he was always very good at was opposing ‘miserablism’ on the left and looking at the strengths and positives in life.

*- my bold

 

Re: The five examples above, seeing them through the prism of 'Class struggle' is your perogative but not one I share.  1 or 2 don't even come close.

 

Even though the Aristocracy is currently trying to muliply themselves by breeding they are all but extinct.  Just what is middle class these days? Almost everyone can define themselves as  working for a living and therefore working class. 

 

How would you define the term  'working class' you use?

 

It a greater or lesser extent we are all socialists in the UK. Even the Tories agree there must be Governmentel control over  almost all elements of 21st century society.

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4 minutes ago, Flanker7 said:

Re: The five examples above, seeing them through the prism of 'Class struggle' is your perogative but not one I share.  1 or 2 don't even come close.

The abolition of slavery and the emancipation of women were both resisted by the ruling class as was most equal opportunities legislation.

 

The working class is simply everyone who earns a wage (or receives some form of benefit) although many who earn a higher wage choose to describe themselves as middle class now.

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2 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

That doesnt mean that Labour policy is wrong, it means that certain individuals in the Labour Party are wrong.

No it means Labour can't practice what they preach.

 

If they're going to force every single MP of theirs to follow their 1970s and 1980s mantra, they're going to get no MPs wanting to stand for them.

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William Wilberforce - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wilberforce

 

Just because the 'ruling class' (another dodgy term) oppose something dosen't mean that the 'working classes' support it.  All enlightened legistlation in this country has been introduced by the ruling party. 

 

Don't even get us started on the 'Benefit class' .  'Shameless' springs to mind.

 

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