The Labour Party. All discussion here please

[melthebell 863]

35 minutes ago, banjodeano said:

but this is the point i am trying to make, time and time again i bang on about it, time and time again i repeat it, the Blairite faction of the party would rather see labour get thrashed at the ballot box and have another tory government than a Corbyn led one, they have done everything they can do...and still do, to undermine corbyn, they literally are tory lite in the labour party, and they should have no place in the party, can you imagine if they had thought "oh well, we are not going to take the party back to the right, lets just go along with Corbyn the silly old fool and try and help him"...can you imagine how much better they had done with a united front

Doesnt it work both ways? i see mates on facebook slagging off "blairites" and supporting corbyn as well as the other way round, its killing labour, its splitting them, theres two factions pulling in opposite directions...you aint gonna win an election.

and looking at history you conveniently missed my point, its the right of the party thats won recent elections, why should they unite under a socialist banner if its not gonna get them enough popular support to win an election? its winning elections that gives the opportunity to change.

[BigPP 96]

3 hours ago, banjodeano said:

But what is actually the point in winning if you don't improve the lot of the working class, yeah minimum wage was a positive but I am struggling with much else..always thought it looked bad when he cosied up to Murdock 

 

2 hours ago, Car Boot said:

I've always believed that the minimum wage was the greatest achievement of Tony Blair's Labour. Unfortunately, the Blairites set it at a very low rate and then refused to increase it by very much for years. 

 

Still, the minimum wage is a huge socialist achievement and even the Tories recognise that to remove it, or allow it to 'wither on the vine', would be political suicide.

Here's a few more that appear to have been forgotten by anti-Blairites:

 

28 days holiday pay

 

Working tax credits

 

Sure Start Centres

 

Pension Credit

 

£200/£300 Winter fuel allowance

 

Free TV licenses for the over 75's

 

NHS funding trebled (All targets achieved ). Now, under the Tories none are.

 

If you want to make a difference you have to get into power and then stay in power.  It's no use being a protest movement. All that leads to is permanent Tory government.

 

 

 

 

[banjodeano 31]

9 minutes ago, melthebell said:

Doesnt it work both ways? i see mates on facebook slagging off "blairites" and supporting corbyn as well as the other way round, its killing labour, its splitting them, theres two factions pulling in opposite directions...you aint gonna win an election.

and looking at history you conveniently missed my point, its the right of the party thats won recent elections, why should they unite under a socialist banner if its not gonna get them enough popular support to win an election? its winning elections that gives the opportunity to change.

They should unite behind a socialist banner because thats what the party members want, the MP's are not the party, the members are the party, and they have chosen overwhelmingly to go down the socialist rout, they should fall into line like the left of the party did under Blair, not try and destroy the party from within.....

I will repeat it once again because its what i strongly believe....they would rather have a Tory government than a labour one, thats all you need to know about them

[melthebell 863]

1 minute ago, banjodeano said:

.they would rather have a Tory government than a labour one, thats all you need to know about them

seems you do too as you still seem to not be able to understand you will NEVER have a labour government while both factions are fighting and seems YOU are as guilty as the other side for demanding. the party is split, both sides wont unite, theres too many differences, the last time labour won an election was under the blairites.

 

whats your solution? and please dont just repeat blairites uniting under a socialist banner

[banjodeano 31]

1 minute ago, melthebell said:

seems you do too as you still seem to not be able to understand you will NEVER have a labour government while both factions are fighting and seems YOU are as guilty as the other side for demanding. the party is split, both sides wont unite, theres too many differences, the last time labour won an election was under the blairites.

 

whats your solution? and please dont just repeat blairites uniting under a socialist banner

well, what alternative is there,? the members have decided which direction we should move in, thats the end of the matter, the members call the shots not the MP's...

what is your answer to the problem then Mell?

[melthebell 863]

4 minutes ago, banjodeano said:

well, what alternative is there,? the members have decided which direction we should move in, thats the end of the matter, the members call the shots not the MP's...

what is your answer to the problem then Mell?

ive no idea...its not my party, all i see is yet more years of wilderness and tory rule while the party stays split

[banjodeano 31]

Just now, melthebell said:

ive no idea...its not my party, all i see is yet more years of wilderness and tory rule while the party stays split

well there you have it Mell, you dont have a solution ....

 

[hackey lad 3,965]

2 hours ago, banjodeano said:

well there you have it Mell, you dont have a solution ....

 

And neither do you 

[banjodeano 31]

mandatory 

7 hours ago, hackey lad said:

And neither do you 

mandatory reselection has to be the way forward, let the members decide

[sheffbag 227]

14 hours ago, banjodeano said:

They should unite behind a socialist banner because thats what the party members want, the MP's are not the party, the members are the party, and they have chosen overwhelmingly to go down the socialist rout, they should fall into line like the left of the party did under Blair, not try and destroy the party from within.....

I will repeat it once again because its what i strongly believe....they would rather have a Tory government than a labour one, thats all you need to know about them

Go for it, the UK public has rejected that idea at the ballot for half a century. I offer the same questions to you that i did to Car Boot in the event of Labour doing what you have recommended.

 

Name 30 of the 60 seats that it will gain in order to give a majority whilst not losing any of their current seats.

 

What reasoning do you have that would result in the UK overturning nearly 50 years of rejection of a socialist Labour Party in elections.

 

I'll even go further than 50 years. Labour won the second 1974 election with a majority of........3. 

 

You have to go back to 1966 - 53 years ago to the last time Labour had a sizeable majority if you are not counting the Blair years. Since 18 year olds have been able to vote, a socialist Labour has not had a majority in double figures in Parliament. so how is JC going to change that in 3 years time?

[melthebell 863]

21 minutes ago, sheffbag said:

Go for it, the UK public has rejected that idea at the ballot for half a century. I offer the same questions to you that i did to Car Boot in the event of Labour doing what you have recommended.

 

Name 30 of the 60 seats that it will gain in order to give a majority whilst not losing any of their current seats.

 

What reasoning do you have that would result in the UK overturning nearly 50 years of rejection of a socialist Labour Party in elections.

 

I'll even go further than 50 years. Labour won the second 1974 election with a majority of........3. 

 

You have to go back to 1966 - 53 years ago to the last time Labour had a sizeable majority if you are not counting the Blair years. Since 18 year olds have been able to vote, a socialist Labour has not had a majority in double figures in Parliament. so how is JC going to change that in 3 years time?

3 years time? You so sure there won't be a GE sooner?

[sheffbag 227]

the next mandatory date is 2022. There may well be one before then if the govt calls one but no one knows really.