The Labour Party. All discussion here please

[bendix 10]

On ‎16‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 16:50, Anna B said:

Yes indeed. 

636 pages on Sheffield Forum for Labour who aren't even in power, compared to 210 pages for the Conservatives who are making a complete hash of Brexit with possibly the worst Tory government ever. 

 

Trying to deflect attention from theirown shortcomings by criticising others. . .Just shows how worried they are. 

 

The fact there is so much on the this thread and not the Tory thread should worry you, not give you comfort.  It's testament to the fact that people are genuinely bemused that during the worst Tory government in decades, Labour still remains so far behind in the polls.

 

You can protest and you can shout media bias all you like; that fact is irrefutable.  And it is attributable predominantly to Labour's leadership.

[banjodeano 31]

1 hour ago, bendix said:

 

The fact there is so much on the this thread and not the Tory thread should worry you, not give you comfort.  It's testament to the fact that people are genuinely bemused that during the worst Tory government in decades, Labour still remains so far behind in the polls.

 

You can protest and you can shout media bias all you like; that fact is irrefutable.  And it is attributable predominantly to Labour's leadership.

erm no, its a testament to the fact that the resident tories on here would rather focus their attention on the Labour Party,  than  focus on the mess that the present government have got us into....

Edited March 18, 2019 by banjodeano

[bendix 10]

1 minute ago, banjodeano said:

erm no, its a testament to the fact that the resident tories on here would rather focus their attention on the Labour Party,  than  focus on the mess that the present government have got us into....

It seems to me that Tories on here - like Tories in Sheffield generally - are a tinyminority.  If your theory is right, they are doing a damn good job with their strategy and Labour's ability to create chaos and loss out of very winnable positions keeps on going on.

 

 

 

 

[alchresearch 214]

On 16/03/2019 at 16:50, Anna B said:

Yes indeed. 

636 pages on Sheffield Forum for Labour who aren't even in power, compared to 210 pages for the Conservatives who are making a complete hash of Brexit with possibly the worst Tory government ever. 

 

Trying to deflect attention from theirown shortcomings by criticising others. . .Just shows how worried they are. 

Or maybe its just that the majority of this forum, like the city, are Labour voters, so there's more discussion?  

 

Considering the poor form of the Tories at the moment, its difficult to argue with any statements on the Conservative thread - they are the worst Tory government for ages, with a terrible leader.

 

You can cry "media bias" all you want.  It won't alter the fact that Corbyn is a terrible leader and is killing the Labour party.

[banjodeano 31]

4 minutes ago, alchresearch said:

Or maybe its just that the majority of this forum, like the city, are Labour voters, so there's more discussion?  

 

Considering the poor form of the Tories at the moment, its difficult to argue with any statements on the Conservative thread - they are the worst Tory government for ages, with a terrible leader.

 

You can cry "media bias" all you want.  It won't alter the fact that Corbyn is a terrible leader and is killing the Labour party.

come on....he has doubled the party membership and increased the labour share of the vote at the last election

Jeremy Corbyn increased Labour's vote share more than any of the party's leaders since 1945

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-election-result-vote-share-increased-1945-clement-attlee-a7781706.html

[Anna B 1,401]

3 hours ago, Robin-H said:

A million people lifted out of absolute poverty.

 

Wage growth for the poorest fifth of people  higher than any other group. 

 

Fallen income inequality. 

 

Material deprivation rates for children and pensioners and the lowest rates ever.   

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/one-million-people-lifted-out-of-absolute-poverty

That would suggest that either Austerity has had no effect on the poor, or the figures are wrong / manipulated.

 

For exanple 'Absolute poverty' is a measured term for a particular kind of poverty which is usually used for places like Africa and we thankfully don't have much of in this country, (a million people lifted out of starvation in this country? Really? Doesn't say much for what's been happening does it?) whereas 'Relative poverty' is used for economically viable countries like Britain, but these would give a very different result so have not been given.  Also depends on how the figures are calculated, what calculation of average has been used, percentages which give false impressions etc, but you know this. 

 

These are propoganda figures put out by the Tory government. They would say that wouldn't they?

Just try looking around you.

[convert 10]

29 minutes ago, Anna B said:

That would suggest that either Austerity has had no effect on the poor, or the figures are wrong / manipulated.

 

For exanple 'Absolute poverty' is a measured term for a particular kind of poverty which is usually used for places like Africa and we thankfully don't have much of in this country, (a million people lifted out of starvation in this country? Really? Doesn't say much for what's been happening does it?) whereas 'Relative poverty' is used for economically viable countries like Britain, but these would give a very different result so have not been given.  Also depends on how the figures are calculated, what calculation of average has been used, percentages which give false impressions etc, but you know this. 

 

These are propoganda figures put out by the Tory government. They would say that wouldn't they?

Just try looking around you.

Please tell me how relative poverty is measured?

 

I look around, and I see kids with the latest phones / trainers / fashion, and parents crying poverty whilst visiting foodbanks (have to tab off the L&B before going in though).

 

I see left wing media luvvies using a charity telethon, to promote their own political agenda, and as a result, getting lower viewing figures, and almost £8Million less in donations on the night, than 2 years ago.

 

As a nation we have never been as well off.

 

Has austerity hit people, undoubtably.  It's hit me. Over the past 6 years I've had one pay rise of 1%, yet all my bills have gone up.

 

Am i blaming this government  ?(small g they don't deserve a big one), partially I am.

 

However I'm blaming Labour (or Tory light as the lefties now refer to them, although I don't remember many Labour voters using the term at the time) for the majority of it. They overspent in the good years, creating a massive deficit, which only now is coming under control. 

 

The resident red flag waving crowd may crow that the debt has risen to an all time high, but that tends to happen when you spend more than your income.

 

 

[Anna B 1,401]

1 hour ago, convert said:

Please tell me how relative poverty is measured?

 

I look around, and I see kids with the latest phones / trainers / fashion, and parents crying poverty whilst visiting foodbanks (have to tab off the L&B before going in though).

 

I see left wing media luvvies using a charity telethon, to promote their own political agenda, and as a result, getting lower viewing figures, and almost £8Million less in donations on the night, than 2 years ago.

 

As a nation we have never been as well off.

 

Has austerity hit people, undoubtably.  It's hit me. Over the past 6 years I've had one pay rise of 1%, yet all my bills have gone up.

 

Am i blaming this government  ?(small g they don't deserve a big one), partially I am.

 

However I'm blaming Labour (or Tory light as the lefties now refer to them, although I don't remember many Labour voters using the term at the time) for the majority of it. They overspent in the good years, creating a massive deficit, which only now is coming under control. 

 

The resident red flag waving crowd may crow that the debt has risen to an all time high, but that tends to happen when you spend more than your income.

 

 

Never been as well off? Tell that to the disabled people who have had their already meagre income cut by half. Or the people moved onto Universal credit who have lost their homes. Or the people on growing waiting lists for hospital, who can't have operations. Or the people who can no longer afford their rent, or food. Or the highstreet shops that are closing. Or the old people left without adequate home care. Or the people who use day care centres which have closed. Or the social services which can barely function. Or the people who can't find a policeman when they need one because of cuts.  And so on.... 

 

Oh, wait a minute, the very rich are considerably better off...  that must be affecting the statistics...

 

As for Comic Relief, it's take has been falling steadily over the past few years, according to Jeremy Vine, (David Lammy seems to have taken the blame with his white supremicist rant this time.) Why do you object to charity going to your own country -  that's always been part of the Comic Relief principle, nothing left wing about it. It's objective is just to help people who need it, anything else is simply what you are reading into it. 

 

Do you also see Jesus as a left wing Communist?

Edited March 18, 2019 by Anna B

[Mister M 1,609]

2 hours ago, banjodeano said:

erm no, its a testament to the fact that the resident tories on here would rather focus their attention on the Labour Party,  than  focus on the mess that the present government have got us into....

Exactly this. People just want a whipping boy.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Mister M

[Sidonica 10]

23 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Never been as well off? Tell that to the disabled people who have had their already meagre income cut by half. Or the people moved onto Universal credit who have lost their homes. Or the people on growing waiting lists for hospital, who can't have operations. Or the people who can no longer afford their rent, or food. Or the highstreet shops that are closing. Or the old people left without adequate home care. Or the people who use day care centres which have closed. Or the social services which can barely function. Or the people who can't find a policeman when they need one because of cuts.  And so on.... 

 

Oh, wait a minute, the very rich are considerably better off...  that must be affecting the statistics...

 

As for Comic Relief, it's take has been falling steadily over the past few years, according to Jeremy Vine, (David Lammy seems to have taken the blame with his white supremicist rant this time.) Why do you object to charity going to your own country -  that's always been part of the Comic Relief principle, nothing left wing about it. It's objective is just to help people who need it, anything else is simply what you are reading into it. 

 

Do you also see Jesus as a left wing Communist?

I agree with the points you made Anna , but I am a lifelong  labour voter who will not vote for a Jeremy Corbyn led government. Why? because he is anti brexit and always will be.  I am  working class, a pensioner and not rich, I have grown up children and and young grandchildren and have spent a considerable amount of time    looking after older family members and will continue to do so. Brexit is not going to improve their lives or mine one little bit. We need someone who is going to lead the labour party in the right direction.

[alchresearch 214]

2 hours ago, banjodeano said:

come on....he has doubled the party membership and increased the labour share of the vote at the last election

Jeremy Corbyn increased Labour's vote share more than any of the party's leaders since 1945

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-election-result-vote-share-increased-1945-clement-attlee-a7781706.html

The thing is your quote is from two years ago.  A hell of a lot of changed since them.  "A week is a long time in politics" - two years is definitely such.

 

Shall we talk about the more recent news of Labour's membership figures slump?  

[Anna B 1,401]

56 minutes ago, Sidonica said:

I agree with the points you made Anna , but I am a lifelong  labour voter who will not vote for a Jeremy Corbyn led government. Why? because he is anti brexit and always will be.  I am  working class, a pensioner and not rich, I have grown up children and and young grandchildren and have spent a considerable amount of time    looking after older family members and will continue to do so. Brexit is not going to improve their lives or mine one little bit. We need someone who is going to lead the labour party in the right direction.

Then the Tories will get in again and you will have missed a golden opportunity.

 

Jeremy Corbyn personally is no lover of Europe, but he is doing his duty by the party membership and as opposition leader - unfortunately this is a huge muddle for all - nobody knows who's on what side because it should have been cross party from the start and wasn't, so both Labour and Conservatives have a mix of remainers and leavers trying to fight it out in each party. But I'd trust him to do a better job for everybody than anybody in the Conservatives.

 

But an election is about so much more than Brexit.

 

Let's face it, until the Referendum came up, most people cared not a hoot about being in the EU, we just got on with things, and we will do again, in or out. 

Whereas the other issues that beset our country, and there are lots,  need urgent attention and decisions to be made that are in the interests of the majority of people. And believe me, Corbyn's definately the man for that.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Anna B