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The Conservative Party - all discussion here please.

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That's terrible. That's what you expected in East Germany in the days of the Stassi. What do they think this is the Soviet Republic of South Yorkshire?

Error in your quotation: you mean 'the Socialist Republic of South Yorkshire'!

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The story is about a year old and,I think,been done on here before...

 

Yep. A bit like David Miliband clearing off to work for a charitable organisation for £250,00/year. Just imagine capable people being so tight that they look to be paid for their services.

 

---------- Post added 15-05-2015 at 16:46 ----------

 

Error in your quotation: you mean 'the Socialist Republic of South Yorkshire'!

 

Well if you like. I'm sure both apply if you scratch the surface.

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A

£60bn = 4% of UK GDP by 2019?

 

The UK GDP is going to shrink by half to £1.5tn over the next 4 years? :o

 

That's quite a claim, do you mind providing a source for it?

The Conservatives since 1979. Who had inherited the basket case of Europe, after the Winter of Discontent, lest we forget.

 

Over an extended period spanning the above, debt as % of GDP shows a consistent reduction, from 1974 (59.7%) through to 1993 (39.6%), against a consistent increase of the debt from 1974 (£53.7bn) to 1993 (£248.2bn)[source, from the Guardian btw].

 

Simple translation: over that period the UK got in business again, earning the right to borrow and spend ever more. There's a useful at-a-glance table summary on Thatcher's Wiki page here about the Tory's financial performance over the 1979-1990 period.

 

I'm not interested in political tit-for-tat, I'm just looking at the figures. Doesn't matter who's in power: when the figures are bad, they need turning around and improving. When the figures are good, then we have the luxury of politicking about how best to spend the fat.

 

Historically, the Tories do a lot of hoarding (it's all in the name: Conservatives), Labour does a lot of spending. Nothing more needs to be said about it, and that's not a criticism btw. It's just the nature of the politico-democratic beast: people tire of privations and want to splurge/party every now and then. Then the piper eventually needs to be paid. Rinse-repeat.

I'm getting your spin picture, alright :hihi:

 

I'm not working hard to spin anything, all my comments are based on the ONS and OBR figures and Parliamentary reports, the horse's mouth insofar as the nation's finances are concerned. They're public domain and readily/easily accessible by all.

 

But I guess you're going to tell me next that you don't believe the ONS/OBR?

That's if you believe that choking a moribund manufacturing economy on life support to turn it into a knowledge/services economy was a bad thing. I don't recall many crying in their soup about it in the 90s and 00s when they were enjoying the payback of that policy. In fact, I seem to recall a lot of praise from all political corners about it, with the benefit of hindsight.

 

Here. Is the source for the debt interest as a % of GDP

 

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/334/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/

 

So, if since 1974 the debt has been falling then why are you are you and so many others working so hard to portray Labour's record as so poor. Especially given that the Tory record is really no better, perhaps worse.

 

You can't claim to be nonpolitical mate because your agenda is patently heavily loaded. I didn't vote for either of the main parties by the way, My agenda admittedly is loaded and about highlighting all the mistakes both have made, and as the Tories are in power I'm focusing on them. Their economic policies are on the whole disastrous. Ruinous.

 

You weren't here in the early to mid 80s were you. Be honest. If you were you would understand. Try telling the half-destroyed communities round here that the Tories made things better.

 

---------- Post added 15-05-2015 at 19:15 ----------

 

What that Labour always leave the economy shot to s*** and the Conservatives have to come fix it yet again.

 

We all got that picture thanks that's why Labour didn't win the election we just had.

 

I don't think your argument Tories always good, Labour big bad bogeymen argument will stand scrutiny. They're both crap.

 

But let's try it. Tories:

 

What happened to all the oil revenue

 

Why have the Tories doubled our debt

 

ERM, 1992 crash, 15.5% interest rates

 

1987 crash

 

3 million on the dole queue

 

Maudling

 

Deflation

 

Gold standard

 

0.5% interest rates

 

Could go on all night..........

 

They are a disaster for our country. Just like Labour.

Edited by I1L2T3

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A

 

Here. Is the source for the debt interest as a % of GDP

 

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/334/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/

 

So, if since 1974 the debt has been falling then why are you are you and so many others working so hard to portray Labour's record as so poor. Especially given that the Tory record is really no better, perhaps worse.

 

You can't claim to be nonpolitical mate because your agenda is patently heavily loaded. I didn't vote for either of the main parties by the way, My agenda admittedly is loaded and about highlighting all the mistakes both have made, and as the Tories are in power I'm focusing on them. Their economic policies are on the whole disastrous. Ruinous.

 

You weren't here in the early to mid 80s were you. Be honest. If you were you would understand. Try telling the half-destroyed communities round here that the Tories made things better.

 

---------- Post added 15-05-2015 at 19:15 ----------

 

 

I don't think your argument Tories always good, Labour big bad bogeymen argument will stand scrutiny. They're both crap.

 

But let's try it. Tories:

 

What happened to all the oil revenue

 

Why have the Tories doubled our debt

 

ERM, 1992 crash, 15.5% interest rates

 

1987 crash

 

3 million on the dole queue

 

Maudling

 

Deflation

 

Gold standard

 

0.5% interest rates

 

Could go on all night..........

 

They are a disaster for our country. Just like Labour.

 

What you are failing to consider is the indisputable fact that when the Tories enter government, its after Labour ruined the country and the economy is failing, and by the time the Tories have turned it around the electorate vote Labour back in to a growing economy. So Labour start on an high and end up on a low and the Tories always start on a low and end on an high.

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Because you will not be left alone :loopy: Snooper's Charter. Mind you, it's already happening without being officially implemented

 

What Cameron said goes against a basic tenet of Conservatism, and indeed against the law itself.

 

Politicians and the police are becoming more authoritarian. Twenty years ago if you got arrested, charged and found not guilty and it was your first offence, your photo and fingerprints taken when you were arrested were destroyed.

 

You had committed no crime therefore the state wasn't interested in you.

 

Contrast that to today. Hundreds of thousands of DNA samples of innocent people kept on file by the police. Politicians wanting to keep people for 28 days without charging them. Detention without trial, and so on.

 

What Cameron came out with is the justification for a police state.

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Here. Is the source for the debt interest as a % of GDP

 

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/334/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/

I know that page well. It tracks with most of my comments. Ironical? No, because-

So, if since 1974 the debt has been falling then why are you are you and so many others working so hard to portray Labour's record as so poor. Especially given that the Tory record is really no better, perhaps worse.
-funny that, I could have sworn it was you working very hard to portray the Coalition's record (and Tories a couple decades before) as so poor. It's the story of a monochromatic pot, a monochromatic kettle, etc.

You can't claim to be nonpolitical mate because your agenda is patently heavily loaded.
I'm reacting and replying to your debt-related posts with looking at numbers during the tenure of Tory governments between Labour goverments, which of course will come to your anti-Tory (anti-Labour and -Gvt altogether, in short?) position as political. That's your interpretation, however: I'm still just looking at numbers. Unlike politicians, opinions and positions, they are fully objective.

I didn't vote for either of the main parties by the way, My agenda admittedly is loaded and about highlighting all the mistakes both have made, and as the Tories are in power I'm focusing on them. Their economic policies are on the whole disastrous. Ruinous.
Sooo...Agenda loaded against both parties during their respective tenure you say. Right. Could have fooled me, there. Mate.

 

I didn't vote at all in the GE. Not allowed. So full freedom to sit back and observe apolitically and opine left, right, cente and swing as I please. And to bitch about any and all, because whoever gets in still gets to waste my tax just the same.

You weren't here in the early to mid 80s were you. Be honest. If you were you would understand. Try telling the half-destroyed communities round here that the Tories made things better.. They're both crap.
I wasn't indeed, it's common knowledge/public notoriety on here. But tell you what: when I came here (in 93 for the first time), I found the grass truly was much greener, Tories and Labour and 80s local history (over 30 years ago now, then it was still just a tad over a decade 'fresh') an'all.

 

So, re BIB above, can I suggest to you...emigration? ;)

They are a disaster for our country. Just like Labour.
Ah, I sense some balance returning to the Force. Not a lot, but it's a start :D Edited by L00b

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What you are failing to consider is the indisputable fact that when the Tories enter government, its after Labour ruined the country and the economy is failing, and by the time the Tories have turned it around the electorate vote Labour back in to a growing economy. So Labour start on an high and end up on a low and the Tories always start on a low and end on an high.

 

The economy was growing when the coalition took over. They stopped it growing within six months. Nothing has turned around.

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The economy was growing when the coalition took over. They stopped it growing within six months. Nothing has turned around.

 

And unfortunately for Labour the electorate didn't swallow that load of flim flam either. That's why Labour have another 5 years of opposition.

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I know that page well. It tracks with most of my comments. Ironical? No, because-

-funny that, I could have sworn it was you working very hard to portray the Coalition's record (and Tories a couple decades before) as so poor. It's the story of a monochromatic pot, a monochromatic kettle, etc.

I'm reacting and replying to your debt-related posts with looking at numbers during the tenure of Tory governments between Labour goverments, which of course will come to your anti-Tory (anti-Labour and -Gvt altogether, in short?) position as political. That's your interpretation, however: I'm still just looking at numbers.

Sooo...Agenda loaded against both parties during their respective tenure you say. Right. Could have fooled me, there. Mate.

 

I didn't vote at all in the GE. Not allowed. So full freedom to sit back and observe apolitically and opine left, right, cente and swing as I please. And to bitch about any and all, because whoever gets in still gets to waste my tax just the same.

I wasn't indeed, it's common knowledge/public notoriety on here. But tell you what: when I came here (in 93 for the first time), I found the grass truly was much greener, Tories and Labour and 80s local history (over 30 years ago now, then it was still just a tad over a decade 'fresh') an'all.

 

So, re BIB above, can I suggest to you...emigration? ;)

Ah, I sense some balance returning to the Force. Not a lot, but it's a start :D

 

You'll get it in the end. Neither of the main parties deserves to be defended. There is no Tory turning round of the economy. There were no Labour 'good times'.

 

The coalition record will be judged as disastrous. Just like Labour's will - ironically Labour's finest moment was dealing with the crisis strange as it may seem.

 

But.....since 1979 and perhaps arguably 10 years before that we have been on a debt-driven neoliberal trajectory that has torn the guts out of the economy. It's got to end. That doesn't mean I'm anti-government. I want a better government.

 

---------- Post added 16-05-2015 at 00:20 ----------

 

And unfortunately for Labour the electorate didn't swallow that load of flim flam either. That's why Labour have another 5 years of opposition.

 

It was growing. Then debt-doubling Tories worked their magic.

 

I'm not defending Labour. Just stating facts. Refute them if you can but you won't be able to.

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It was growing. Then debt-doubling Tories worked their magic.

 

I'm not defending Labour. Just stating facts. Refute them if you can but you won't be able to.

 

That's cool. You just lost an election trying to pedal that flim flam. Fortunately no one was fooled by it. Labour failed to take any of the target seats in Yorkshire because folk aren't as gulible as you seem to think they are.

 

Enjoy 5 years of Cameron followed bt 5 years of Boris... :hihi::hihi::hihi:

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That's cool. You just lost an election trying to pedal that flim flam. Fortunately no one was fooled by it. Labour failed to take any of the target seats in Yorkshire because folk aren't as gulible as you seem to think they are.

 

Enjoy 5 years of Cameron followed bt 5 years of Boris... :hihi::hihi::hihi:

 

Didn't vote Labour.

 

Hope you're not self-employed and getting tax credits. Your life is going down the tubes if so.

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Didn't vote Labour.

 

Hope you're not self-employed and getting tax credits. Your life is going down the tubes if so.

 

I don't ever remember saying you did vote Labour. You certainly didn't vote Tory, but then neither did I. However unlike you I'm pretty pleased with the result. I am self employed, and don't really need financial advice from you. I pay an accountant and a financial advisor to do that, and it seems to work pretty well.

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