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Update on Origin Broadband's plans following closure of DRL

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I would also hazard a guess that you wanted the other thread pulled because early on in that other thread, you implied that you're differentiating yourself from other ISPs by 'not just being another BT Wholesale reseller' - that being said, for customers who are wanting to utilise your Fibre offerings then this is exactly what you are doing i.e reselling BTw NGA Fibre products, and if you're doing this alongside phone line rental then you're doing the BTw WLR product also - I fail to see how this differentiates your product from others in the marketplace. It's my understanding that your 'own network' is limited to standard ADSL/SDSL offerings with your own DSlams in exchanges i.e you do LLU - LLU is a mature product in the world of UK internet service provision and indeed is a service that is gradually going to die off with the rise of more FTTC/FTTP provision.

 

I wished you well as a company when I left your services, however that being said I'm still wondering how much runway you've still got left what with certain business practices that I still see continuing even now.

 

Origin FTTC does go over their LLU network, if its available at the exchange the cabinet connects to.

 

While technically you connect to a BT cabinet and are routed over BT fibre to the exchange, it then gets handed off into Origins network there rather than continuing across BT to a regional connection, like most ISPs.

 

I can only speak for my connection, but it is not subject to the BT line monitoring either. The VDSL port is manually configured to 80/20 and never shifts. That I guess could be a blessing or a curse, depending on how good your line is.

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I can't see why you just didn't merge the posts, don't say it couldn't be done as most forums these days and would expect this to be the same has the ability to merge threads and I'm sure they have done in the past.

 

It was the admins call to delete, rather than merge, the thread.

 

Just to recap my point on the other thread..

 

Can you tell me why you cant have a postcode checker on the main Origin page in the same way that other ISp's have? It seem to be hidden on the order page so that the only way to access it is by giving email and contact details first?

 

We are currently in the middle of re-designing the website. We have taken on board your feedback, and there will be a postcode checker available on the front page.

 

And it is precisely these types of tactics that ensure that you will not gain the trust of this user base. This is pretty much exactly the same thing that happened when your previous wholesaler (Digital Region) pulled your plug - it is basically censorship of both your own comments, but also of other people who have bothered to either ask questions or post responses to what you have stated. I also wonder if you have educated yourself as to the history of the issues that people here have posted about i.e the events that transpired before you joined your current employer... You chose to resurrect this old thread that will demonstrate exactly what kind of company Origin was last year - and this makes good business sense to you?

 

I would also hazard a guess that you wanted the other thread pulled because early on in that other thread, you implied that you're differentiating yourself from other ISPs by 'not just being another BT Wholesale reseller' - that being said, for customers who are wanting to utilise your Fibre offerings then this is exactly what you are doing i.e reselling BTw NGA Fibre products, and if you're doing this alongside phone line rental then you're doing the BTw WLR product also - I fail to see how this differentiates your product from others in the marketplace. It's my understanding that your 'own network' is limited to standard ADSL/SDSL offerings with your own DSlams in exchanges i.e you do LLU - LLU is a mature product in the world of UK internet service provision and indeed is a service that is gradually going to die off with the rise of more FTTC/FTTP provision.

 

I wished you well as a company when I left your services, however that being said I'm still wondering how much runway you've still got left what with certain business practices that I still see continuing even now.

 

We have our own network, monitor everything ourselves and deal directly with Openreach.

 

The traffic from our fibre connections go through our network, and not through BT Wholesale.

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It was the admins call to delete, rather than merge, the thread.

 

Yet in post 310 you specified that this was at your own company's request to remove the thread. I feel it's probably a lot more likely that you requested that they removed a thread, this specific thread, as lets be honest the history of this thread in at least the first 15 pages doesn't exactly cast your organisation in the best of lights. You're now trying to make the best of yet another bad situation in that they've acted upon the request but removed the first and newer active thread that's been seen, rather than this older thread that was being referred back to that you probably actually wanted to hide from 'new customers' in the previously active newer thread.

 

We have our own network, monitor everything ourselves and deal directly with Openreach.

 

The traffic from our fibre connections go through our network, and not through BT Wholesale.

 

All ISPs have to deal with Openreach, even Virgin Media occasionally have to deal with Openreach yet they run their own fibre, they still have peering and transits with others that are then administrated by Openreach and Wholesale. You can't give that as a blanket answer, because it is not true in all areas (You've previously stated that you're now a national ISP, covering all areas that BTw can reach with their products!), and it isn't even true on all levels locally either, as you still need to use BTw service tools to check the racks on the the road (under xDSL it was a Whoosh test to check exchange equipment, I haven't worked in the industry for a while but imagine it'll be renamed to something like NGA whoosh) before you're able to raise a line fault for a connection.

 

I have put it to you (as a company) a few times asking how you're differentiating yourselves as an ISP against others in the market for your fibre product, and you can't because there is no substantial difference. Given your company's track record, you really need to up your game in terms of customer services in order to win back people's trust and have an outstanding product, but you're still eroding peoples trust by asking for things to be deleted/censored from forums that you don't control if you don't like the opinion of someone that runs counter to your organisation, rather than dealing with the issues or questions that may have arisen. Even other basic customer stuff such as the questions of the issues of your portal marketing (postcode checker)

 

Going back to the question of product differentiation and your statement of not having traffic passed by Wholesale, you're still subject to BT Wholesales' products for NGA and BT Openreach for the engineering. Going back in history, the actual product of ADSL was literally the connection between a CPE and the exchange where it hit the MUX, was de-mux'd (PSTN and DSL signals diverted at that point) and the data hit the DSLam. It doesn't really matter who owned the DSLam, BT (giving old IPStream/Datastream products) or the ISPs own equipment to give an LLU. It doesn't really matter if the connection was ATM or Ethernet encapsulated over the PPP - the DSL is still just the initial signal connection from CPE back to 'exchange equipment' be that at the roadside or in the exchange over the whole traditional local loop. Fast forward from there back to now and VDSL is basically just the process of moving the DSL sync equipment to the road and fibre-backhauling the connection then back to exchange equipment rather than using the old PSTN copper all the way back. For this part of the connection, you're still using Openreach/Wholesale's equipment and their fibre in the road back to the exchange, are still having to utilise their tools and price lists for their products, still have their lead times and customers still have their port/rack contentions in the cabinets, so unlike when you were on the DR wholesaler where you could actually differentiate your product against other fibre providers, you can not do that any longer.

 

Another tell-tale sign that you're not fully in control of your products are your prices, as you're bundling your fibre products with PSTN products, and the PSTN products prices that you're quoting are price-aligned with BTWLR and BT NGA for the fibre products (40/2 40/10 and 80/20), which goes back to the point that I was making previously again of that your customers physical connection is with BTW until it hits your own equipment, and makes it appear more that you have previously used some weasel words.

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Yet in post 310 you specified that this was at your own company's request to remove the thread. I feel it's probably a lot more likely that you requested that they removed a thread, this specific thread, as lets be honest the history of this thread in at least the first 15 pages doesn't exactly cast your organisation in the best of lights. You're now trying to make the best of yet another bad situation in that they've acted upon the request but removed the first and newer active thread that's been seen, rather than this older thread that was being referred back to that you probably actually wanted to hide from 'new customers' in the previously active newer thread.

 

All ISPs have to deal with Openreach, even Virgin Media occasionally have to deal with Openreach yet they run their own fibre, they still have peering and transits with others that are then administrated by Openreach and Wholesale. You can't give that as a blanket answer, because it is not true in all areas (You've previously stated that you're now a national ISP, covering all areas that BTw can reach with their products!), and it isn't even true on all levels locally either, as you still need to use BTw service tools to check the racks on the the road (under xDSL it was a Whoosh test to check exchange equipment, I haven't worked in the industry for a while but imagine it'll be renamed to something like NGA whoosh) before you're able to raise a line fault for a connection.

 

I have put it to you (as a company) a few times asking how you're differentiating yourselves as an ISP against others in the market for your fibre product, and you can't because there is no substantial difference. Given your company's track record, you really need to up your game in terms of customer services in order to win back people's trust and have an outstanding product, but you're still eroding peoples trust by asking for things to be deleted/censored from forums that you don't control if you don't like the opinion of someone that runs counter to your organisation, rather than dealing with the issues or questions that may have arisen. Even other basic customer stuff such as the questions of the issues of your portal marketing (postcode checker)

 

Going back to the question of product differentiation and your statement of not having traffic passed by Wholesale, you're still subject to BT Wholesales' products for NGA and BT Openreach for the engineering. Going back in history, the actual product of ADSL was literally the connection between a CPE and the exchange where it hit the MUX, was de-mux'd (PSTN and DSL signals diverted at that point) and the data hit the DSLam. It doesn't really matter who owned the DSLam, BT (giving old IPStream/Datastream products) or the ISPs own equipment to give an LLU. It doesn't really matter if the connection was ATM or Ethernet encapsulated over the PPP - the DSL is still just the initial signal connection from CPE back to 'exchange equipment' be that at the roadside or in the exchange over the whole traditional local loop. Fast forward from there back to now and VDSL is basically just the process of moving the DSL sync equipment to the road and fibre-backhauling the connection then back to exchange equipment rather than using the old PSTN copper all the way back. For this part of the connection, you're still using Openreach/Wholesale's equipment and their fibre in the road back to the exchange, are still having to utilise their tools and price lists for their products, still have their lead times and customers still have their port/rack contentions in the cabinets, so unlike when you were on the DR wholesaler where you could actually differentiate your product against other fibre providers, you can not do that any longer.

 

Another tell-tale sign that you're not fully in control of your products are your prices, as you're bundling your fibre products with PSTN products, and the PSTN products prices that you're quoting are price-aligned with BTWLR and BT NGA for the fibre products (40/2 40/10 and 80/20), which goes back to the point that I was making previously again of that your customers physical connection is with BTW until it hits your own equipment, and makes it appear more that you have previously used some weasel words.

 

You've made some interesting points, and you're right in the fact that the Digital Region network was a very different set up to the way we operate now. I can see that you're very interested in the way we run our services, and we'd love to talk about this further.

 

We'd be happy to give you a tour of your local exchange building, during which time you'll be able to talk with one of our senior engineers about the way that our network functions. Please PM me if you're interested.

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You've made some interesting points, and you're right in the fact that the Digital Region network was a very different set up to the way we operate now. I can see that you're very interested in the way we run our services, and we'd love to talk about this further.

 

We'd be happy to give you a tour of your local exchange building, during which time you'll be able to talk with one of our senior engineers about the way that our network functions. Please PM me if you're interested.

 

I was promised a tour of my local exchange a year ago, still waiting......

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I still have Origin on my Facebook for some reason, and i've noticed they have been upto their old tricks again, after reading the comments on everything they post. They have some very unhappy customers who can't get through to them, and are being ignored.

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