Clegg..We should take in Syrian refugees.

[Jabsy1978 10]

The more the merrier. That's what I say. Quite frankly - there isn't enough Immigrants in Sheffield. I think David Cameron should demand 100,000 Mexicans relocate to SNAKES PASS with immediate effect.

[Tommo68 10]

The part I've emboldened typifies your absurdist and reductive thinking. It's a totally meaningless phrase. 'They are victims of their own culture?' What?

 

I think his meaning though not eloquently put is quite obvious.

Syria's situation is not brought about through a natura disaster that some people may wish to voluntarily offer aid (as opposed to a non democraticly decided donation by the state) The situation in syria is any way you look at it a result of their own civil unrest/war.

 

 

 

Firstly, you know nothing about Syrian culture and secondly, you seem to be using the phrase to imply that's somehow their own fault, as if it somehow absolves us of any moral responsibilty to help.

You think it's a messed up culture, yet you clearly know nothing of it. I wonder if what you really mean when you refer to Syrian culture is 'Islam' - which would be spectacularly lazy thinking on your part but par for the course.

 

Firstsly I am amazed at how much you think you know about his knowledge of syria and its current situation and culture.

 

It is their cilvil unrest/war whatever you wish to label it. So NO it is not our fault. Why do you consider that we should be feeling ourselves to be under any moral responsiblity to take sides or become involved.

 

I think, as I have said before, that nationally if we have any moral responsibility it simply to remain uninvolved and remain detached.

Most British people I would think ;

have no wish to take sides, nor would know which side most deserving of assistance.

have no wish to take actions that will prolong the conflict and by implication increase the current toll of death injury and hardship

a lot of British people if they were asked would probably say they don't really have an interest in what takes place in foreign countries.

 

 

He said, and YOU implied that he meant Islam, that syria has a messed up culture.

Is killing each other not messed up?

IF he did mean Islam.. he would not be wholly wrong beacuse

There are differnt factions of Islamic believers and some do bear each other sufficient emnity that they choose to kill people of other factions.

This is much as the christians catholics and protestants used to do til around 1648

 

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/European_History/Religious_Wars_in_Europe

 

Implying that in regard to agreeing to disagree and respectng each others' viewpoint some of the followers of Islam are about 350 behind christians.

 

Which in turn surely implies that some supporters of Islam are in fact messed up.

 

 

 

Lets look at that phrasing you use there - 'seperate people from the culture'. I suspect that what you actually mean is seperate people from their culture. It's all about conformity with you isn't it?

 

They are quite right. As long as those practices and beliefs fall within the law and aren't troubling others why would you not respect them?

 

Why should anyone respect any culture that may or actually is undermining their own. Most reasonable thinking people can see why it has been, would be and is a loss to us all when any culture in its homeland is either eroded beyond recognition or destroyed.

 

As has happened in the past elsewhere when there has been large scale immigration by peoples of different cultures they do and some times actively seek to erode or destroy the indigenous culture.

 

I think many Brits would not want to see that happen here.

I think many Brits would like us to try and prevent it from happening here

 

 

 

You've just sent me a link to a Channel 5 programme featuring Katie Hopkins and are linking it with the notion that it demonstrates that multicuralism doesn't work. Extraordinary.

 

 

Perhaps a better link could have been provided, one less ambiguous perhaps. Unfortunately to get a TV programme to clearly point out the down side of continued immigration, multiculturalism etc is not easy as the people that select programmes for viewing would not be allowed to permit such a programme to be shown.

 

It appears someone or organisation(s) are afraid of the truth and have the ability to keep it out of plain sight.

 

Two questions;

 

....Has there ever been a reforendum anywhere on whether or not the people of an indigenous culture have unanimously come out and said that multiculturism works?

 

....Is it likely that even if arranged that the wording of the available options would not be clear cut.

 

Eventually one culture will dominate but not without damage to it. So in reality all are lost.

 

To those that wish to live in a nation that embraces multiculturism I suggest that they all go to somewhere place no-one else wants and form their own nation. Then we can all see what that looks like after a few generations and whether or not we like it.

 

Quote:

But still people like you refuse to budge. Still you refuse to accept the validity of concerns. Still you label people racist.

Which concerns am I refusing to accept?

 

You may not be refusing to accept his concerns you do however appear to very much refuse to recognise the validity of his concerns.

 

As for labelling people racist, I think you'll find that I only ever do that when there's good reason - i.e. they are.

 

You appear to want to label anyone racist that does conform to your way of thinking.

Having pride in one's own nation, wanting to defend and maintain your own nation and culture, recognising and alerting others to actual threats or discussing potential threats to both nation and culture is not being racist.

 

Well its not to any reasonable person.

 

What is it, or who is it, that gives you the right to label anyone racist?

 

 

Quote:

Which brings us to where we are now... a place where refugees (and immigrants in general) are broadly unwelcome.

That'd be anywhere near you then.

 

I know, like and get on with quite a few people that are immigrants that does not mean that I think they should be welcome in this country.

 

Quote:

It is the fault of people like you that the British public don't want Syrians coming here and there is growing intolerance and hostility towards immigrants.

I've had this ludicrous idea put to me before. It was absolute garbage then and it still is now. Unless you can decribe a causal linkage to explain how that actually works, I'll treat it with the contempt it deserves.

 

 

Decrying his comment with an attempt to put it down by the use of self rightous indignation does not invalidate the overall sentiment he expresses here.

 

The fact remains that no-one in a positon to arrange one has offered to hold a reforendum on whether or not the indigenous british population want any syrian refugees or any other immigrants. One is forced to come to the conclusin that by implication they are sure that they will not get the result they want.

 

---------- Post added 21-04-2014 at 15:02 ----------

 

This isn't a thread about immigration, it's about refugees. Like or not though, surveys have shown that public opinion is regularly in the region of 3/4 in favour of reducing it. This is to be expected when a nation experiences the record high levels of inward migration it has since 2000.

 

I believe Sheffield should not be pressured by a man who has overseen savage cuts to our city into receiving more refugees than it does already. As I've already pointed out, we've been one of the most generous cities to asylum seekers, and have been recognised as so by the European Parliament. Look at how welcoming Sheffield was to Zimbabweans and Somalians fleeing conflicts compared to elsewhere. We have been pulling more than our weight for some time now.

 

 

Well said.

[Zamo 10]

The part I've emboldened typifies your absurdist and reductive thinking. It's a totally meaningless phrase. 'They are victims of their own culture?' What?

 

Firstly, you know nothing about Syrian culture and secondly, you seem to be using the phrase to imply that's somehow their own fault, as if it somehow absolves us of any moral responsibilty to help.

 

You think it's a messed up culture, yet you clearly know nothing of it. I wonder if what you really mean when you refer to Syrian culture is 'Islam' - which would be spectacularly lazy thinking on your part but par for the course.

 

Yes, 'Islamic' culture is messed up. Rather than fighting, injustice, corruption, extremism, poverty etc being the exception it is the rule in Muslim countries. Like most people, I know enough about their culture to reject it. I simply don't want it here.

 

I'd like us to meet our 'responsibility' by offering refuge with conditions but people like you veto the idea of conditions... so they can stay where they are.

 

Lets look at that phrasing you use there - 'seperate people from the culture'. I suspect that what you actually mean is seperate people from their culture. It's all about conformity with you isn't it?

 

Yes, I'd like immigrants to conform to British values and principles. But nobody is going to force them... they can stay where they are if they prefer.

 

They are quite right. As long as those practices and beliefs fall within the law and aren't troubling others why would you not respect them?

 

The reason is the track record. Extremism and trouble follows wherever Islamic culture gets a foothold.

 

You've just sent me a link to a Channel 5 programme featuring Katie Hopkins and are linking it with the notion that it demonstrates that multicuralism doesn't work. Extraordinary.

 

I sent you a link to a report showing the findings of a YouGov poll that evidences that most people are not happy with currently immigration policy and want it to change or stop altogether. You doubt the findings? If you do then you are truly out of touch with how most people feel.

 

Which concerns am I refusing to accept?

 

See your own quote above! You refuse to even accept that most people have concerns... let alone that they are valid!

 

I've had this ludicrous idea put to me before. It was absolute garbage then and it still is now. Unless you can decribe a causal linkage to explain how that actually works, I'll treat it with the contempt it deserves.

 

The proof is in how many people want immigration to totally stop and the lack of any public outcry at the pitiful amount of refugees we've taken from places like Syria, Lybia, Somalia, South Sudan etc. Immigration without conditions is rejected and that means immigration is rejected until conditions are applied. You and your ilk (who refuse to accept conditions for entry are appropriate) are responsible for the 'leave them where they are then' response to people rotting in refugee camps.

 

That's a snappy little soundbite Zamo, but for crying out loud, try and say what you actually mean instead of these trite and ultimately meaningless phrases.

 

What ground needs to be given in your opinion? Let me try (since you don't actually say) and guess what you mean...

 

Being you I think it'll probably involve you imposing your values on others and impeding their freedom to wear what they choose, eat what they want and pray to whom they choose - am I close?

 

As stated above, giving ground mean agreeing to the setting of conditions of entry. I would like us to assess willingness to embrace our culture before granting entry and to test application for a while after entry. I'd ask people to leave cultural practices behind like veil wearing and following Sharia law practices. I'd have us make it clear to potential immigrants that they should not expect, or ask, the British people to accommodate or assist them in the following of foreign beliefs and practices... including their eating habits.

 

But I wouldn't impose anything on anyone. They are welcome to reject the terms and to stay where they are if they prefer.

[Mr Clowning 10]

Zamo you make some interesting points.

[waynef25 10]

clegg just go get camron and then both of you walk of a cliff or boil your heads. idiot pear of idiots.

 

---------- Post added 21-04-2014 at 22:58 ----------

 

too many refugees on this small island. nothing to do with the race its just fact that england is full...

 

---------- Post added 21-04-2014 at 22:58 ----------

 

i know people are going to moan at my comment but i could not car a f

[Mr Clowning 10]

 

I know people are going to moan at my comment but I could not care a ....

Only a select few will, but boy will they moan

[Unitedite 10]

Yeah! It's imperative that people adopt British culture. Cups of tea. Roast beef and potatoes. Gin and tonic. Curry. St George. Christmas.

 

Hmm...

 

Rooted deep in our fundamental identity and our culture, our entire history is one of embracing and engaging with foreign influences. Everything we do, from the food we eat to the words we speak, has arisen from the interchange of ideas and people across our borders. Immigration is British culture.

 

It's amusing that some people believe we should take a snapshot of 'true British culture' i.e. 'what we have right now' that everyone in the future should then be forced to conform to. These people clearly haven't thought about it very much. It simply doesn't work - ask the Académie Française.

 

Every time I speak to someone who thinks that "foreigners should embrace our culture" I ask them a few questions from the British Citizenship test. What year was the Battle of Bosworth? In what county is Maiden Castle? When were women given voting equality with men? When did Britain became permanently separate from the rest of Europe? When was the Anglican Church founded? How many members are there in the Northern Ireland Assembly?

 

It's funny. I meet a lot of loud, proud, patriotic British people. UKIP (neé BNP, National Front) voters. Keen to state their credentials with flags and bulldogs and racist jokes. And yet when put to the same test they expect other people to meet they seem to go awfully quiet. Can't quite work out why.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Unitedite

[Halibut 12]

Yeah! It's imperative that people adopt British culture. Cups of tea. Roast beef and potatoes. Gin and tonic. Curry. St George. Christmas.

 

Hmm...

 

Rooted deep in our fundamental identity and our culture, our entire history is one of embracing and engaging with foreign influences. Everything we do, from the food we eat to the words we speak, has arisen from the interchange of ideas and people across our borders. Immigration is British culture.

 

It's amusing that some people believe we should take a snapshot of 'true British culture' i.e. 'what we have right now' that everyone in the future should then be forced to conform to. These people clearly haven't thought about it very much. It simply doesn't work - ask the Académie Française.

 

Every time I speak to someone who thinks that "foreigners should embrace our culture" I ask them a few questions from the British Citizenship test. What year was the Battle of Bosworth? In what county is Maiden Castle? When were women given voting equality with men? When did Britain became permanently separate from the rest of Europe? When was the Anglican Church founded? How many members are there in the Northern Ireland Assembly?

 

It's funny. I meet a lot of loud, proud, patriotic British people. UKIP (neé BNP, National Front) voters. Keen to state their credentials with flags and bulldogs and racist jokes. And yet when put to the same test they expect other people to meet they seem to go awfully quiet. Can't quite work out why.

 

Excellent post Unitedite, especially the concluding paragraph.

[Mr Clowning 10]

It's funny. I meet a lot of loud, proud, patriotic British people. UKIP (neé BNP, National Front) voters. Keen to state their credentials with flags and bulldogs and racist jokes. And yet when put to the same test they expect other people to meet they seem to go awfully quiet. Can't quite work out why.

 

You obviously have a problem of not being able to distinguish between UKIP and the BNP/NF, maybe you should google the 3 parties ?

 

'flags and bulldogs and racist jokes' ? you don't have to stereo type the electorate just because you have a problem with a party.

 

And yet when put to the same test they expect other people to meet they seem to go awfully quiet. Can't quite work out why.

 

Can't quite work out what this last bit even means.

 

Its ok I got it now, it did not read right for some reason.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Mr Clowning

[Tommo68 10]

Yeah! It's imperative that people adopt British culture. Cups of tea. Roast beef and potatoes. Gin and tonic. Curry. Fish & chips would have been the example most british people would have chosen and probably a pint of bitter rather than gin & tonic... St George.

Christmas ..now you are talking idealogy.

 

 

Wee agree on one thing;

I also think it is imperative that when people emmigrate they should adopt and respect the culture of the country they have moved to.

 

Hmm...

Immigration is British culture.

 

It hasn't been since the Normans invaded and that was nearly 1000 years ago.

 

Hmm...It's amusing that some people believe we should take a snapshot of 'true British culture' i.e. 'what we have right now' that everyone in the future should then be forced to conform to. These people clearly haven't thought about it very much. It simply doesn't work - ask the Académie Française.

 

http://www.academie-francaise.fr/

 

What ever would motivate a british person to ask the French anything I can't imagine. Sure we do use a few french words everyone uses words form all over the world.

 

It would make logical sense, not cultural sense, for the whole world to adopt one language. Logically that should be English as a first and/or second language its one of, if not the, most commonly spoken languages and English is the universally adopted official language of flight controllers and pilots.

 

Hmm...Every time I speak to someone who thinks that "foreigners should embrace our culture" I ask them a few questions from the British Citizenship test. What year was the Battle of Bosworth? In what county is Maiden Castle? When were women given voting equality with men? When did Britain became permanently separate from the rest of Europe? When was the Anglican Church founded? How many members are there in the Northern Ireland Assembly?

 

It's funny. I meet a lot of loud, proud, patriotic British people. UKIP (neé BNP, National Front) voters. Keen to state their credentials with flags and bulldogs and racist jokes. And yet when put to the same test they expect other people to meet they seem to go awfully quiet. Can't quite work out why.

 

So some immigrants learned how to pass a test. Big deal. No-one said they couldn't learn things.

Putting the test and answers on the internet so that anyone who needs to learn the correct responses may do so, is pointless.

Its purely the state paying lip-service to the idea that immigrants should embrace our culture. Learning a few known facts abot it and living it 24/7/365 are two completely different things.

 

I would be interested to learn how many of the people that have passed the UK citizenship test could pass a similar test about the country in which they were brought up.

.

.

[tzijlstra 11]

Wee agree on one thing;

I also think it is imperative that when people emmigrate they should adopt and respect the culture of the country they have moved to.

 

 

 

It hasn't been since the Normans invaded and that was nearly 1000 years ago.

 

 

 

http://www.academie-francaise.fr/

 

What ever would motivate a british person to ask the French anything I can't imagine. Sure we do use a few french words everyone uses words form all over the world.

 

It would make logical sense, not cultural sense, for the whole world to adopt one language. Logically that should be English as a first and/or second language its one of, if not the, most commonly spoken languages and English is the universally adopted official language of flight controllers and pilots.

 

 

 

So some immigrants learned how to pass a test. Big deal. No-one said they couldn't learn things.

Putting the test and answers on the internet so that anyone who needs to learn the correct responses may do so, is pointless.

Its purely the state paying lip-service to the idea that immigrants should embrace our culture. Learning a few known facts abot it and living it 24/7/365 are two completely different things.

 

I would be interested to learn how many of the people that have passed the UK citizenship test could pass a similar test about the country in which they were brought up.

.

.

 

You are so thick or overtly xenophobic it is scary. Are you really saying that none of the millions of Indian, Pakistani, Caribbean etc. immigrants that came here last century ever integrated?

 

You keep avoiding it, thinking you are clever, but you really haven't got a clue, have you? It doesn't take a degree to read between the lines Tommo, really doesn't.

[Mr Clowning 10]

You are so thick or overtly xenophobic it is scary. Are you really saying that none of the millions of Indian, Pakistani, Caribbean etc. immigrants that came here last century ever integrated?

 

You keep avoiding it, thinking you are clever, but you really haven't got a clue, have you? It doesn't take a degree to read between the lines Tommo, really doesn't.

 

They majority don't have to integrate, they set up their own communities don't they and turn it into an enclave of where ever they are from. The multicultural experiment failed a long time ago.

 

Between any lines is empty space.