Clegg..We should take in Syrian refugees.

[tzijlstra 11]

really?British expats on the whole do conform to local customs and actually embrace the local cultures in my experience.....notorious?? for not integrating? never heard that.

the old school immigrants from the 50,s or so have integrated very well and i have no problem with that its the recent influx that is worrying from the last 20 years and going forward.

 

You might want to talk to some Spaniards on the Costas, Canaries or the Balearics.

 

Perhaps you could also talk to some of the Thai/Philipino/Burmese underaged girls that are caught up in a sex-trade mainly involving Western Europeans including a large proportion of Brits.

 

I am pleased that you acknowledge that the older generations have integrated very well. If you realise that they were the ones to be kicked down before, you will also extend your reasoning to accept that recent immigrants will be equally well integrated in due time. Integration isn't an instant process.

[boyfriday 21]

really?British expats on the whole do conform to local customs and actually embrace the local cultures in my experience.....notorious?? for not integrating? never heard that.

You haven't travelled much then or studied history. I don't see many European Australians embracing the Aboriginal culture or Europeans in the US, the Native American one. France and Spain are full of fluent French/Spanish speakers from Britain aren't they?

 

the old school immigrants from the 50,s or so have integrated very well and i have no problem with that its the recent influx that is worrying from the last 20 years and going forward.

 

Immigrants from 60 years ago have integrated well because they're offspring have become 'British', I know I'm one of them. That didn't happen overnight and accounts from my parents and grandparents suggest the natives weren't as accepting as you might believe.

 

The 'recent influx' are experiencing the same issues that immigrants from the 50's experienced. They've entered an alien culture where the native one in many instances is hostile towards them, so they affiliate in areas/communities that are familiar.

 

When I was at school I knew no Asians socially, my adult children have friends from all backgrounds, races and cultures and they all grew up together and get on well.

 

---------- Post added 04-04-2014 at 10:00 ----------

 

You might want to talk to some Spaniards on the Costas, Canaries or the Balearics.

 

Perhaps you could also talk to some of the Thai/Philipino/Burmese underaged girls that are caught up in a sex-trade mainly involving Western Europeans including a large proportion of Brits.

 

I am pleased that you acknowledge that the older generations have integrated very well. If you realise that they were the ones to be kicked down before, you will also extend your reasoning to accept that recent immigrants will be equally well integrated in due time. Integration isn't an instant process.

 

tzijlstra, I'm really not mirroring your posts deliberately but it seems we're singing from the same songsheet.

[Starlc 11]

Who says we have to 'help everybody'. We are talking about a small number of refugees in line with international expectations, or in fact well below international expectations, it is a thing called shared responsibility.

 

And if people like me created the position we are in today you'd better get on your knees and praise me, as we are far, far better off than we were even 20 years ago.

 

We are better off now than 94 ?

 

We are more over crowded granted, but will say do I need to answer the question of whom we are losing our country to ?

 

70 years ago people gave there lives for this country and the people in it, it's a absolute disgrace to them as we have let ourselves be taken by a silent asylum enemy !

[boyfriday 21]

70 years ago people gave there lives for this country and the people in it, it's a absolute disgrace to them as we have let ourselves be taken by a silent asylum enemy !

 

You do know many of the people you're complaining about are the offspring of people who also gave their lives fighting in the British military during world wars I & II?

[Chelle-82 10]

OK, I normally ask my students to read up beforehand, but I will give you the benefit of an abbreviated version.

 

Background

 

Europeans (on the continent) have been in movement for a very long time. What we refer to as hunter/gatherers are in fact quite similar to current day nomadic tribes - they moved across the lands to find food, depending on the season, during this time they started to keep animals, but nowhere near the level that we do now or even a century ago. Again, similar to nomadic tribes (in particular the Nordic tribes with reindeer) it is believed that people didn't necessarily 'herd' animals but rather followed them wherever they would lead them.

 

Over time more and more people realised that plants could be grown specifically, one could describe this as the 'discovery of seeds' - suddenly it became clear that people could propagate particular plants and create enough food to feed themselves year round. This was when people began to settle, although it was still common for people to travel from summer to winter grounds, like migratory birds in a sense.

 

This is also when people began to properly herd animals. Communities of people would begin to domesticate animals, feeding them in the wide area but also learning about feeding them in the winter and breeding them to optimise their ability to survive in current conditions. Civilisations were born.

 

Early civilisations

 

As people learned to optimise growing crops and animals in particular areas, believed to be in the basin of the Tigris (modern day Iraq) and other river-valleys in the Middle East and Asia, they began developing culture, the earliest civilisations didn't have a religion, or indeed a national identity, what happened was that they began to adhere to hierarchies that grew naturally - the best warlords would grow into kings (although King is most definitely a medieval title), their ability to defend the people in an area would enable them to gain control over that area and make them more and more important, they developed what would become known as feudal systems to control the land and to expand the possessions of their lands - ie. they went on conquering raids as far as they could.

 

Some 4000 years ago the seeds for a different sort of civilisation were born in two places, Greece and Egypt. Both prospered under a 'renaissance' of science. Language was developed and mathematics became the norm in negotiating with each other - money was developed, being rich meant you could have other people working for you. Some 1500 years later a new civilisation modelled itself after these old civilisations, the Romans. This would become the first real European empire. Based on their ability to subjugate nations, spreading Roman culture and law across Europe became the target for the consecutive emperors. Rather than wiping out opponents as had been the norm before, the Romans learned to peacefully annex lands - living standards in Roman lands were incredibly high for the time - spreading that culture to people who were struggling to live made sense for both parties. When the natives refused, the Romans had perfected warfare and could project their power in extraordinary manners compared to the norm - roaming bands of bandits and warriors.

 

At this time Britain was part of what could be considered a regional economy advances in seafaring made trade across the Channel and the North Sea an increasing possibility. The Brits learned they had some key-trading goods, grains, wool and ores of various kinds and wanted to trade for goods from all over Europe and even the far east - despite internal struggles of power raging between the warlords it was accepted that trade was good. This all changed when the Romans decided to conquer what is now England (they set out to conquer all of it) because they wanted, in particular, the metals for themselves. The Germanic people that had been trading with the 'British' at this point were isolated - they refused the Roman overlords and were continuously fighting. During this era the Norse were beginning to become more dominant in their territories and they benefited from the Germanic people having to trade with someone to get their goods they had become used to. Slowly but surely the roots for Eastsea and North sea trade were put down.

 

I will have to continue later, but I will!

 

 

Brilliant

 

Thank you for this, knowlegde is a weapon. Are you going to give me the rest or have you already and have i missed the post??

 

Also to comment on another post about your comments about history and learning from it, i would just like to say one of my favourite quotes is 'everything you need to know about your future is written in the history books'

 

You may continue

[alchemist 37]

 

He was in shock at the extent of the Hillsborough cover up, In shock at Nigel Farage position and now in shock at Julie Dore.

 

its shock and awe

[alchresearch 214]

British expats on the whole do conform to local customs and actually embrace the local cultures in my experience.....notorious?? for not integrating? never heard that.

 

 

Most Brits in Spain say no gracias to integration

While some expats are getting involved in Spanish politics, a lot still fall into the stereotypes of reclusive retirees or boozed-up ravers

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/mar/29/europe-news

 

 

'Expats who don't integrate are just lazy'

Have you moved to France, only to find yourself frequenting expat bars, and not mixing with the locals? In this no holds barred column, Englishman Neil Kreeger explains why Anglos who only socialize with other Anglos are "lazy and scared" and missing out on the benefits of integration.

 

Many expats who come to France find it hard to integrate. But even when their French improves, and the language barrier is no longer and issue, there are some who've come from Britain, Ireland, Australia, or North America, but still socialize only with other expats.

 

Anglo pubs, sports clubs and social groups can be a home away from home for them, and they might get through the week without saying more than a word or two in French.

 

 

http://m.thelocal.fr/20131108/expats-who-dont-integrate-are-lazy-and-scared

[alchemist 37]

Who says we have to 'help everybody'. We are talking about a small number of refugees in line with international expectations, or in fact well below international expectations, it is a thing called shared responsibility.

 

 

And what about the next, and the next and the next after that ad infinitum?

[tzijlstra 11]

We are better off now than 94 ?

 

We are more over crowded granted, but will say do I need to answer the question of whom we are losing our country to ?

 

70 years ago people gave there lives for this country and the people in it, it's a absolute disgrace to them as we have let ourselves be taken by a silent asylum enemy !

 

Of course we are better off than in 94? I don't understand your point as you seem to acknowledge it by granting we are more over crowded and than following that up with a but... Grammatically I can't really argue with that because I don't know what you mean or where you are coming from in those first two sentences.

 

The last paragraph is one of those complete misnomers re immigration. 70 years ago people all over Europe gave their lives for their country, not just the Brits. Believe it or not, the Germans did as well. Those that fought for Britain in the Second World War fought for liberty and freedom, the exact thing that you are now fighting against.

 

---------- Post added 04-04-2014 at 10:45 ----------

 

And what about the next, and the next and the next after that ad infinitum?

 

Yes, why not, refugees coming to this country are being monitored very sharply and if they have no valid reason to be here they are sent back. Take the case of that Mauritian girl doing her A-levels. If they do have valid reason I'd rather have them stay here than sending them back, knowing that they will be arrested, jailed and possibly murdered.

 

---------- Post added 04-04-2014 at 10:46 ----------

 

 

 

Brilliant

 

Thank you for this, knowlegde is a weapon. Are you going to give me the rest or have you already and have i missed the post??

 

Also to comment on another post about your comments about history and learning from it, i would just like to say one of my favourite quotes is 'everything you need to know about your future is written in the history books'

 

You may continue

 

Cheers Chelle, I sort of cut it short by replying to another post with a continuation of this story. It does however contain some further things of interest. I posted it at 21:37 last night so you can look it up. If you have questions feel free to contact me!

[mattythefish 10]

Nobody's suggesting we should be helping everybody. The OP refers to 50 people. Over 2 million Syrians have already been displaced and accommodated by other countries, it slightly puts our role in perspective.

 

If we all did a little then helping them wouldn't fall on the shoulders of any one nation.

 

I'd love to know who you think we're 'giving our country away' to.

 

Historically refugee communities have given much more to Britain than they've taken away and helped shaped what it is today..didn't you know this?

 

---------- Post added 04-04-2014 at 09:25 ----------

 

A relatively very small number of immigrants engage in that activity, which is a prosecutable offence.

 

Don't British people engage in that too, a quick Google search will identify them.

 

 

Don't British people engage in that too, a quick Google search will identify them.

 

 

 

Isn't that something British expats are notorious for doing when they move abroad? I think given the number of immigrants in this country the vast majority have integrated very well, even though no one's ever told them what the British way of life is, I'm British and I still don't know.

 

You might want to talk to some Spaniards on the Costas, Canaries or the Balearics.

 

Perhaps you could also talk to some of the Thai/Philipino/Burmese underaged girls that are caught up in a sex-trade mainly involving Western Europeans including a large proportion of Brits.

 

I am pleased that you acknowledge that the older generations have integrated very well. If you realise that they were the ones to be kicked down before, you will also extend your reasoning to accept that recent immigrants will be equally well integrated in due time. Integration isn't an instant process.

 

rubbish! in my experience in spain, ex pats do their upmost to integrate and the spaniards are very happy for the money that is brought to villages towns and in some part cities, also expat emmigrants to spain cant claim and dont come to claim local benefits either and dont demand special treatment.

as for your Thai/philipino commnets etc i agree but that attracts sickos from almost every nationality and its the locals that encourage it.

 

i do acknowledge the older generations of immigrants because they came here got jobs got on with life and didnt expect special treatment because they had principles and were proud, this lot that come now do not have the same principles and are part of the "entitlement" culture.

the latter immigrants will never integrate properly in fact they dont even want to, take a look at every heavily populated immigrant area, housing is bought up cheap as nobody else wants to live there.

[petemcewan 27]

Of course Sheffield should take the refugees. It's our: moral ,social,political and humanitarian duty to do so.

 

Arguments against rely on the following: Dodgy historical references,

'iffy' demographics,fascist ideology,crude nationalism, misrepresentation of social

geography statistics,outright and disguised hatred,xenophobia,nasty patriotic politics,individual social pathology(lacking empathy),Powellism(Enoch), population politics , racism,and moral imbecility.(This list is not exhaustive ).

 

 

If the people of Sheffield have anything to with it;they will do the right thing.

They won't pass them onto somewhere and somebody else.

 

An aside;get rid of Clegg.He can't be trusted.

[tzijlstra 11]

i do acknowledge the older generations of immigrants because they came here got jobs got on with life and didnt expect special treatment because they had principles and were proud, this lot that come now do not have the same principles and are part of the "entitlement" culture.

the latter immigrants will never integrate properly in fact they dont even want to, take a look at every heavily populated immigrant area, housing is bought up cheap as nobody else wants to live there.

 

You confuse so many different matters here that it is difficult to work out where to begin. I'll ignore the eternal cycle of 'they come here to take our houses' thing because you can work out how I feel about that from my other posts. I would like to point out, again, the difference between refugees and immigrants. They are not the same, are you saying that these Syrians (who have yet to be identified) are wanting to come here so they can claim benefits? Don't you think they'd much rather live in Syria without the war having killed their families and neighbours and having caused massive distress?